Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: The views and opinions of the hosts and guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the management and staff of Guardian Radio.
[00:00:11] Speaker B: I'm not afraid, I'm not afraid to take a stand Take a stand Everybody, everybody come take my, come take my
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[00:00:54] Speaker D: Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome ladies and gentlemen to Z Live. I'm Chivago Lang, your host. So glad you could join us here today on Guardian radio video 96.9 FM on this beautiful Tuesday afternoon, not Monday, Tuesday afternoon. I hope you had a wonderful heroes. National Heroes Day celebrated the heroes in your life.
Congratulations to the 400 plus or so people who were honored on National Heroes Day amend them for the work that they have been doing and are doing in the country.
I'm sure there are many more who may have and can be recognized but hey, you know their time was yesterday.
If you want to give us a call today here on Guardian Radio 96.9 FM you can do so on 323-6232. That's 323-6232 or 325-4316, 325-4316 or 325-4259. The 325-4259.
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If any of you all know of a whole free number that RBC Finco has, send it to me please send it to me. Tell RBC Fino them like you can't always reach them if you some other place in the world but if you, if you, if you know if they have a toll free number, it ain't on the back of the car that what I send it to me please tell them I could use that, that toll free number. Call them please.
Ah boy. Okay, again I, I, I, I hope you had a good, a good Heroes Day. National Heroes Day. Used to be Columbus Day. Used to be.
Used to be Discovery Day, you used to call it back in the day, way back in the day. Now Columbus is a terrible man, not celebrated anymore.
Nobody wants to be associated with him except Mr. Trump these days, it seems.
And, and so you can't do National Heroes Day, you know.
Anyway, I'm gonna leave that alone. Yeah, you're keeping.
I see somebody showing me a tornado forming in the sky.
Where's that, though? Where is that going? Freeport now. Now I saw. Where's that tornado forming? Why is it a water spout?
I don't know.
So let's talk public finance today.
Your finance.
Okay. We keep making the mistake of only associating the government's finances with the government. But the government of the Bahamas is a trustee in a trusteeship.
You transfer as owner. You people of the Muhammadans are the owners.
You transfer your assets, your resources to the trustee. That would be the government of the Bahamas, that would be the cabinet of the Bahamas. In this instance, as the director of the government of the Bahamas, would you transfer to the government of the Bahamas? Right.
And under a trusteeship, the trustee, that would be the government has a fiduciary responsibility, meaning it has a legal fiscal obligation to only use those resources for your benefit.
The trustee cannot use your resources for its personal benefit.
That would be a conflict of interest executed and implemented and materialized the most foundational interest to those who work in government. That's everybody. That's the prime minister, the cabinet ministers, the senators, the members of parliament, the permanent secretaries, and every single officer, civil servant, contractual or permanent.
Their foundational responsibility, primary.
Primary, meaning nothing comes above it.
Responsibility is to advance the public interest.
Their own personal interest is subservient to the public interest.
The interest of a group of people to which they belong. Plp, fnm, DNA, COI is subservient to the public interest. There churches interest, as much as they want to serve the Lord God Almighty is subservient to the public interest. So don't let anybody say I said they serve into God now. I said you cannot put your church's interest as a civil servant above the interest of the public.
[00:07:03] Speaker E: Okay?
[00:07:03] Speaker D: So you can't cost the public money. It doesn't need to be charged, so your church could benefit.
Everything is subservient to the public interest in a, in a trusteeship of governance, national governance, everything.
Public interest is the interest.
Identifying that interest is primary is critical. And then Pursuing, advancing, maintaining, protecting that interest is the core responsibility of all those who have responsibility for it.
So when we talk about the public's interest, we're talking about your monies, your resources.
And you're not as you individually, but as a collective.
So you may not like the people who make up the public of the Bahamas. You may not like some of them, you might not like all of them, you may not like many of them, but it doesn't matter.
There is one place in which you have a cohesion that is undeniable and that is in that identification as the public.
Okay, that collective is sacrosanct. In the state, the public is sacrosanct, the collective. The things done in your name are supposed to benefit that collective right. And there is supposed to be
[00:09:01] Speaker E: a
[00:09:01] Speaker D: religious dedication of a sort to the identification, advancement, protection, pursuit of that interest.
That is supposed to be.
So let's talk about your finances.
That's the finances collectively of the people in Abaco and Bimini and Grand Bahama and New Providence and Long island and Cat island and Eleuthera and Inagua and the Iguana and Crooked island and Exuma and Andrus and all the islands and keys populated and unpopulated in the Bahamas. Let's talk about your finances for a moment.
On Wednesday, May 27th of this year, the Minister of Finance of the Commonwealth of the Bahamas, the Honorable Michael Alquitas, said.
He, he said, and I, I'm going to quote what he said. He said, our improvements, this is the budget communication on that day.
Our improvement is reflected in the increased borrowing and debt repayment activity during the year, driven mainly by our ongoing financing operations and rollover of short term obligations as they matured.
He said, our gross borrowings during the nine months in the fiscal year, I want you to remember these words in the fiscal year amounted to $2.5 billion.
That's the gross borrowings just in that first nine months, while our debt repayments, he said, totaled $1.8 billion.
He said, however, the excess borrowing, which would be from that calculation, $700 million.
The excess borrowing receipts were transferred to the National Investment Fund. The National Investment Fund and not used for deficit financing.
This underscores our commitment to meeting our obligations, maintaining our targets and fostering stable fiscal consolidation.
We will come back to that statement in due course.
Okay, but that 700. That statement by the Minister triggered queries, queries about, okay, you mentioned the National Investment Fund. We never heard about the activation of the National Investment Fund.
Has a board been appointed for this fund and you recall that right here on the show.
I believe it was raised first. Right here on the show. Right here on the show.
I said, because the Minister was asked, has the board been appointed? He said, no. I then went to the National Investment Funds Act. I looked at the act and the act said, no fund shall be created or no account of a fund shall be created without the consent of the approval of the Board of Governors of the National Investment, without the Board of governors, and that such an account has to be set up only after the Central bank has approved the institution at which the account could be held. And so I simply concluded that if there is no board. Because the Minister was asked if there's a board of governors and he said, no, none has been appointed yet. If there is no board, there can't be any fund and there can't be any account.
See, See, the National Investment Fund act doesn't create a national investment fund.
It creates the mechanism to create funds, national investment funds and sub funds, okay? And the board of governors is responsible for the creation of those that fund or funds.
And so I concluded, well, you don't have a board, you don't have any fund, you don't have any fund, you don't have an account. So where did you send this money?
And that triggered all of this inquiry that to this day has created an enormous controversy, enormous anxiety, enormous angst in the public over what in fact happened, where did the $700 million go?
What has happened to the $700 million?
And then the opposition leader having written the Central bank, we found out that one account in the name of the National Investment Fund was set up by the government, by the Ministry of Finance, not by the board. So it's not a national investment fund account.
We found that out.
We found out when it was created, when transactions began on it, and by way of reports, we found out that it only has $200,000.
And that kicked up another set of things. Then we found out that the Governor of the Central bank, we found this from the Governor, by the way, the Governor of the Central Bank, John Roll, he found this out because he was responding, as any institution too should, to parliamentary committees, inquiry and so on the immense pressure, we heard from the Attorney General, we heard from the Director communication, we heard from, from, Yeah, on the Minister of Foreign affairs and all, all seem to have contradicted a statement since the revelations from the Governor Central bank that the Minister of Finance made. All, all contradicted all, all for his day. No fun or there's no account or the 700 wasn't really a thing. So for all kinds of contradictions happened. In any event, the government obviously feeling the pressure from the amount of public outcry and anxiety and the dissatisfaction with the statement made by the Minister of Finance who provided an accounting, let's call it for the.
Be generous, a partial accounting for. For the $700 million. $310.9 million. What happened to the $389.1 million? We have no idea yet. Not a clue. Not one idea. We have none. And why there is a resistance to give and provide in accounting? We have no idea.
In any event, the Parliamentary Accounts Committee headed by the leader of the opposition has commenced investigations into this and other matters and the government is on record as saying it will fully cooperate with the pac.
Okay, the opposition in this regard. So the chairman of the PAC recently provided an update on.
On the work that they are doing.
Now, I'm going to say this. It is regrettable that the chairman of the has to dribble or partially provide updates to the public on this matter because if the government of the Bahamas says we will fully cooperate, there is no reason that park meetings shouldn't be televised. Public business.
Why would it not be useful to look at the testimonies of the people who are discussing and responsible for the public finances in real time when it's your money they are discussing?
Why do I have to wait for a summary, an excerpt or a brief about it when in point of fact, as you see in the United States, you see in Canada, or you might see in the United Kingdom, et cetera, people get to look and see these committees at work. I mean, we got. The United States, got a whole channel called C Span based on that same premise.
Especially when you have a commitment for cooperation. I think that that should be reversed. I think that the government should say, you know what the heck with that nonsense. Let's just, let's televise it. You know, we get. Listen to me, folks. Can I explain something?
Let me tell you how insane this seems to me.
We have gavel.
No gavel.
Tele. The televising of the business of the ar.
The business of the. This, the most sacred business, the street.
And. And a commission of the Parliament. We say, no, no, no, that should be secret.
I mean, we get to hear the Prime Minister, the Minister of Finance and all the ministers and all the members of Parliament all talk about our business in real time. But when they got to do a subcommittee piece of work, people then say
[00:19:42] Speaker E: no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[00:19:43] Speaker D: No, shut the window, close the door, pull the blinds across.
[00:19:48] Speaker F: We don't need them to hear that now.
[00:19:50] Speaker D: Let them only hear what we conclude.
Well, when you're doing the parliament business, we don't got to hear what you conclude.
We get to hear you discuss the what conclusion. And then when you conclude, we can make up our minds. You know what? That was a good conclusion based on that discussion. Or we could say that was a dumb conclusion based on that discussion. But when it comes to a subcommittee and everybody said, people, you can't let them hear that because that ain't good.
You're listening to Z Live. I'm Survival, I'm your host. We'll be back after this break.
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[00:21:59] Speaker I: Great news.
[00:21:59] Speaker D: Ronce Electric Motors new location on Cowpen Road right next to Island Lock is open Saturdays and Sundays. So for those needing repairs on electric motors, generators, welding machines, water pumps, battery charges, electric lifts, transformers and power tools, Ron's Cowpen Road location can have you up and running on weekends. Don't forget you can still visit Ron's Electric Motors on Wolf Road and Claridge Road. And now Ron's new location on Cowpen Road, dial 356-0249 or 323-5267. You try to rest roll with the best?
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[00:22:52] Speaker B: Let print masters.
[00:22:54] Speaker D: Bring your masters.
[00:22:56] Speaker C: Located the Nassau Guardian Building, telephone 302-2361.
[00:23:01] Speaker B: I'm not afraid I'm not afraid to take a stand Take a stand Everybody, everybody come take my hand Come take my. We'll walk this road together through the storm? Whatever weather, cold, the warm Let me know that you're not alone if you feel like you.
[00:23:27] Speaker D: Welcome back. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to Z Live. I'm Chivago Lang, your host. I'm so glad that you could join us here today on Guardian Radio, 96.9 FM on this beautiful Tuesday afternoon. I trust again that you will. If you want to call, the numbers are 323-6232 or 325-4316 or 325-4259. You can call us if you are in The Family Islands on 242-300-5720. You can text us on 422-4796. So you can WhatsApp me on 439-3043.
In his press statement, the chairman of the Public account, Public Accounts Committee, Mr. Michael Pintad, he provided an update on two matters he on, on the. On the national investment fund and one on the vouchers. We'll take up the National Investments funds first.
And he indicated that they had heard from a number of persons thus far, one being Sean Longley, who we now know to be a member of the Board of Governors and National Investments Funds fund and a de facto chairman of the board.
De facto. We don't know this. From the government of the Bahamas. We don't know this. I mean, like, like, like, seriously, like when.
How is it acceptable to appoint a board of an entity that will manage hundreds of millions of dollars and the government of the Bahamas doesn't announce it?
I would think you'd be proud to do that. I just, I just, I don't understand it.
The PAC also heard from John Rule, the governor of the central bank.
So these are all people who would have made appearances at the, at the pack.
Diane O. Kindling also is on that board of Governors. Brian Jones is also on that board and Andre Ramming is also on that board. All having been given documents appointed doc appointment documents going back to August of 2025. Says the chairman.
That he indicates that he is not that the pack is not now or how does not have an explanation for why the government did not tell the public that the board was appointed.
Listen, if the government of the Bahamas and the prime minister and others have said on numerous occasions that they believe in transparency and accountability. I mean like, like how do you justify the words we believe in transparency and accountability with you don't announce a board of governors really of a national investment fund.
That's very odd.
Says they said he said he noted that they also did not have an explanation for why the national investment fund board was left off the government's most recent list of boards and committees.
He indicated that the opposition and members of the media had asked the government to identify the members of the board. That is true.
And that the government had refused to do so. To this day.
To this day, very, very, very, very day has not.
I just cannot. I cannot myself understand that this is public business. I just cannot understand why you would not want to say Sean Longley
[00:27:42] Speaker G: Bo
[00:27:43] Speaker D: and Mr. All these people are on the board.
Why would you not says.
That the.
And he will.
[00:28:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:03] Speaker D: He said they would have not any explanation as to as to why the board was never called together even after its appointment a year ago that monies were being allocated and transactions were taking place as we all know from the governor's letters in the name of the national investment Fund hundreds of millions of dollars.
Not no meeting of the board, no announcement of the board.
And so far he indicates he indicated that so far they have been receiving cooperation from the Central bank and the Department of Legal affairs but that cooperation from the Ministry of Finance was not so forthcoming that they had that the minute that the financial secretary and the treasurer are both prepared before the pac but the PAC didn't still not have full documentary record needed to understand what happened that they still don't have records of transaction to determine how the money was spent. It's the most critical thing, one of the most critical things right there. He still don't know how that money was met.
The $700 million remains in question. He understood and there's still no clarity on that.
There's no clarity on what the NIF account really is.
And so he indicated what happens next that both investigations will continue.
That was on the national investment fund.
Then he met with the on the vouchers Simon Wilson, the financial secretary Jerome Fitzgerald who was Then the adviser, a senior advisor in the Prime Minister's office, John Nixon, a consultant in the Ministry of Finance, Carl Oliver, the Director of Public Procurement, Dwayne Ellis, a finance officer, Ministry of Finance, and Whitney Kenney, Deputy Controller of Customs. All were met with and had this issue of the thing of the vouchers taken. I don't want to get there with the vouchers right now, today.
[00:30:36] Speaker E: So
[00:30:40] Speaker D: given the press statement by the Chairman, there remains darkness still.
So their work has not uncovered any light about what happened to your money.
It has not 700 million plus dollars. Still don't know. It could be as much as a billion dollars. We don't know what happened to it. We don't know not from what has been reported today.
So there's no why the government has proceeded in the way it proceeded with the National Investment Fund. Why it is continuing to operate in this space of translucency or opaqueness on, on the board. And don't know. We don't know.
[00:31:29] Speaker E: We don't know.
[00:31:30] Speaker D: So, but you know, some, some key people have presented at the park and, and the chairman says the work of the park continues.
This text says Leno. Sean Longley. Yes, Sean Longley from Leno. Yeah, that's his. This is the de facto chair, it seems. Yeah.
Okay, so this $700 million plus that the minister alluded to having transferred to
[00:32:10] Speaker E: the
[00:32:14] Speaker D: National Investment Fund, which the Attorney General said did not exist, which the Minister of Foreign affairs and skated did not exist, which could not have existed on the basis that there was no board activity to make it exist.
I, I found something interesting myself in numbers. And latray. Latray didn't say that the National Investment Fund didn't exist. He just said you. That's $700 million you're talking about. That's different. Y' all got to stay up, hang with me. Now trust me when I tell you guys right, I am not, I am not uncertain or unclear on anything I'm saying on this matter.
The trey roaming did not say that the National Investment Fund did not exist. He said that you're talking about that $700 million. I don't know where you'll get that from. That's a different matter.
All right, so that's that. So, so. But when I, when we come back, I want to talk to you about some things I found that I found curious.
We'll be back after this break. You're listening to Z Live. I'm Shiva Willangular host.
[00:33:40] Speaker B: I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid to Take a stand, take a stand Everybody everybody Come take my, come take my we'll walk this road together through the storm Whatever weather, cold, the warm Just let me know that you're not alone I love if you feel like you make
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[00:36:34] Speaker B: I'm not afraid I'm not afraid to take a stand Take a stand everybody everybody come take my, come take my we'll walk this road together through the storm Whatever weather call the war Let me know that you're not alone I love if you feel like you.
[00:37:00] Speaker D: Welcome back. Welcome back ladies and gentlemen gentlemen to Z Live. I'm Chevalgo Lang, your host. So glad that you could join us here Today on Guardian Radio, 96.9 FM on this beautiful Tuesday afternoon. If you want to call us, the numbers are 323-6232 or 325-4316 or 325-4259.
You can call us from the Family Islands on 242. 300-5720.
You can text us on 422-4796 or you can WhatsApp me on 439-3043.
So you need to follow me now. Okay. Follow me.
Remember the statement that the Minister of Finance made? He said they had gross borrowings of $2.5 billion.
He said, and then they repaid $1.8 billion. Those are important numbers to remember.
So if you were doing an investigation in an attempt to find out where those two numbers are in the government's fiscal numbers, if you could find those two numbers, you could say, oh, oh, okay, I see, I see where that is.
[00:38:32] Speaker E: So
[00:38:35] Speaker D: if you go to the government's budget, you know the, the estimates of revenue and expenditure, that's the big, that's the, that would be the big document. Right? And you find that right on the government's web page website. And I know how to find it. So when you go to the government's proceeds of borrowing section, something interesting you will find, you will find under the 2024, 2025 fiscal year.
Now, 2024, 2025 is the year, the fiscal year before the minister, the period the Minister was referencing for the 2.5 billion and $1.8 billion. That's a, that's the, that's that.
The way I read the Minister's communication was that in the first nine months of the 2025, 2026 fiscal year, they borrowed gross $2.5 billion and then repaid $1.8 billion.
But if you go to the government's budget document, estimates of revenue and expenditure, you will see that GROSS Borrowings
[00:40:04] Speaker C: in
[00:40:04] Speaker D: 2024, 2025 was $2.5 billion. In fact, it was $2.520951 billion.
Just so you know, I'm reading right from the document and that.
And then you will find in the actual current year, in the current year, you will, in the current year, you will find, I mean, sorry, in the 2025, 2026 year, the gross borrowing, Sorry, the gross borrowings in the 2025, 2026 period that the minister was referencing was $1.05 billion, not 2.5.
The 2.5 shows up the year before that.
Now, what is interesting about that 2.5.
What is interesting about that 2.5 billion is that in the year, in that same fiscal year, 2024, 2025, that same fiscal year.
If you look at the annual, the annual borrowing plan of the Fiscal Responsibility Council, it says that the refinancing needs in that year, which year 2024, 2025, is $1.8 billion. So we have two government documents referencing the two numbers that the minister
[00:41:53] Speaker G: gave
[00:41:54] Speaker D: $2.5 billion in gross financing needs or an actual, actual collection, because this is the actual number that was provisional number that was received 2.5 plus billion dollars.
And in the Fiscal Responsibility Council's annual borrowing plan, 2024, 2025, the need, the repayment need is $1.8 billion, 2.5, 1.8 to give you a net excess borrowing of 700 plus million dollars, as the Minister said, but not in the year, it seems to me that he said not in the 2025, 2026 year, in the year before that.
Okay, now why is that, why is that believable to me that it maybe was the 2024, 2025 year?
Because when was the National Investment Fund account in the name, when was the account in the name of the National Investment Fund opened at the Central Bank?
We are told in June of 2025.
When the transactions begin on that account?
We are told in July of 2025.
Let me ask you a question. You think the government could find 4 or $700 million quicker start when the budget started only July 1, 2025?
[00:43:24] Speaker B: No.
No.
[00:43:27] Speaker D: But if you had 700 million excess borrowings from the year before, you could put that inside the that account.
So, so there seems to be to me something off in that statement, given those two documents. Now maybe there's an explanation for it and the government might wish to provide it, but that's my observation. The second observation I make is this.
If you read the borrowing resolution for the Bahamas for 2026, 2027, it says something interesting.
This is for the current fiscal year. Now this is for this year. We are in. This is what it says in that boring resolution.
And whereas it is not necessary to undertake additional borrowings given the surplus of revenue over expenditure outlined in the 2026, 2027 Estimates of Revenue and expenditure which have been laid before the House of Assembly. What does it say? It says, whereas it is not necessary to undertake additional borrowings. Remember, I cannot find, I cannot find this. I cannot read it for you.
And so.
I have to believe, though, because this year has a surplus and that year has a forecasted surplus that it had to say the same thing. Whereas, no, it is not necessary to have any additional borrowings given the surplus. And so I ask you, if there was no, there was a surplus forecasted for the last fiscal year like this fiscal year, and therefore no additional borrowings was necessary, how come we have excess borrowings noted by the Minister of Finance in that year, in that surplus year?
How come?
How is that conceivable?
I don't know, but that's the question.
If there's something I've said, if you don't understand, please feel free to text call, let me know. I'll try to clarify it for you. All right.
You're listening to Z Live. I'm Survival Line, your host. We're going to take a break from news. We'll be back after the news break.
[00:46:08] Speaker B: Everybody, everybody come take.
Me.
[00:46:33] Speaker A: This is Guardian Radio, your station for up to the minute news and intelligent, interactive and engaging conversations. 96.9 FM.
[00:46:47] Speaker B: I'm not afraid to take a stand Take a stand Everybody everybody come take my Come take my we'll walk this road together through the storm Whatever weather call the warm Just let me know that you're not alone I love if you feel like you
[00:47:10] Speaker E: should.
[00:47:12] Speaker D: Welcome back. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen to Z Live. I'm Chevalgo Lang, your host. So glad you could join us here today on Guardian Radio 96.9 FM on this beautiful Tuesday afternoon. If you want to give us a call, the numbers are 323-6232 or 325-4316 or 325-4259. You can call us if you end the Family islands toll free on 242-300-5720.
You can text us on 422-4796 or you can WhatsApp me on 439-3043.
This text says. Hi, Brother Lang. This government is only about PR and spin. They will say one thing today because they believe it to be politically expedient. Do the exact opposite then when exposed or found out, send the communications director to absorb the blow until the public and media drops the issue.
The way this country is being governed boggles the mind, says that text.
This text says the day line with the $700 million. That million dollars that's dead. Nothing coming out of that. I told you all those people who drank that half pint aristocrat to vote plp. They woke up the next morning from their dreams and now they're hollering the country sold out for bad Rum, so Sad. Wait until December 2026 in your fast. Stay tuned, you'll see. Line, you ever taste rock on meat? It tastes like chip.
Is it? You say this ain't going nowhere. I know where, where it's going. But I, I do know that I, I'm committed to trying to find out what happened. And obviously there are others. The government has agreed to cooperate with the opposition and trying to get answers for us, which I have to confess sounds kind of odd to me because I don't know why the pack like okay, so I know why the park is doing what it's doing because that's part of its work to try and find out, right? And so gratefully they asked asking people who have involved at the civil service level. But if the government wanted to like save time, it could just provide answers because the government did it.
Give me a false statement, let me tell these people what I did with their money.
And even if that means saying, you know what, we now understand that this particular way of dealing with it might not have been the best way and whatever. But, but, but we could save time. Like the government is on the committee investigating the government.
It couldn't be me. I wouldn't, I honestly, I'm saying to you, I wouldn't raise your guy. I can just tell you, listen man, here, see, see, see, see this what happened. But I save you time and then we can go on to governing the country. This text says, true, the 700 million excess borrowings is debt. It wipes out any surplus number they specified.
Well that those are two different concepts. So $700 million as a debt is, so this is how our country is supposed to work your money finances. If you have a deficit, you borrow money to finance it. That's how it works. So you don't borrow money if you don't have a deficit.
Now you could borrow money to refinance an existing debt. You know that that's like you going to the bank to say I want to refinance my mortgage. And they may give you a longer term, they might give you a lower interest rate or something of that nature. Some people might even do it in reverse. You might get a shorter term and a lower interest rate or a low interest rate. You might get a higher interest rate on, on a longer term. But if you're trying to negotiate something that helps your cash flow situation, the bank might say, okay, we could do a little something something bring it down for you. So, so you, you borrow, you borrow to refinance, but that does not change the Your indebtedness.
Right. When you refinancing.
But like borrowing anyway, the excess borrowing in quote seems odd to me because if you look at the, if you look at the, if you look at the, the borrowing resolution. I'm going to read some more for you what the borrowing resolution says.
Borrowing the resolution, this is the one for this year where there's supposed to be a surplus happening.
And Whereas by section 162 of the Public Debt Management act, the minister is authorized to borrow for the purposes set out under section 18, which authorization shall include borrowing either within or outside the Bahamas from any person, organization, foreign government, blah blah, blah, blah, blah.
It goes on to say that the Minister is authorized to borrow, but here's what it says subject to the provisions that the total sum borrowed under paragraphs A, B, C and D. This is telling you what the government could borrow for government loan agreements, loans from multilateral institutions, issuing securities, I mean, or how it should borrow creating any other debt instrument.
So the government is being authorized to borrow in this instance. Now remember, there's a surplus. So this is an additional borrowing. So it is authorized to borrow subject to the, to the provision that the provisions that the total sum borrowed under paragraph A, B, C and D does not exceed the amounts required to refinance or reschedule existing public debt.
You see that?
Okay, so that's what I said. This is what we're refinancing, including to manage the government's cash position and use this remains and ensure it remains adequate throughout the execution of the budget so long as such borrowing shall not lead to variations in the government's net debt position at the end of the fiscal year. And the House receives communication from the Minister of Finance, from the Minister of Finance at the earliest opportunity after apportionment. Apportionment among paragraphs A, B, C and D. So this is a kind of this. It can look like an open ended borrowing resolution, but it caps it says you could only borrow to refine, finance or reschedule debt.
[00:53:41] Speaker F: Brother.
[00:53:42] Speaker D: And even if you're trying to deal with your overdraft, all of that said, your net position cannot cause any variance in the government's net total net debt position.
So if that is true. Think about that for a minute. If all of that is true, and that was true in the previous fiscal year when There was a $75 million budget surplus forecasted, how do you get to we borrowed 700 plus million dollars more than we needed.
How do you get. I just read the, I just read, read the resolution.
[00:54:24] Speaker F: Listen to me.
[00:54:25] Speaker D: Listen, okay, remember the minister said the GROSS Borrowings was 1.2.5 billion.
He said the repayment was 1.8 billion. The rest was sent in NIF.
The resolution says. And I'm assuming this resolution has to be the same as the last one because I can't find the last one. I can't get it from nobody.
[00:54:47] Speaker E: No one.
[00:54:47] Speaker D: I asked for it. It's not on the government website.
Not on the one. I searched the Internet. Could I find it?
If he said he borrowed 2.5 billion, we paid 1.8 billion. He had excess borrowings. Those are the minister's words. This says, subject to the provisions that the total sum borrowed under paragraphs A, B, C and D does not exceed the amounts required to refinance or reschedule existing public debt. What was the amount required to refinance or reschedule existing debt? 1.8 billion.
That's what they told us.
Including. To manage the government's cash position and ensure it remains adequate throughout the execution of the budget. Listen, so long as such borrowing shall not lead to variations in the government's net debt position at the end of the fiscal year where the excess borrowing come from. How does that. How do those two things connect is the question.
That's the question. How do they connect?
Okay, I do not know. All right, so maybe we can get some answers on that later by, you know, some means or the other.
But let me. Let me say this much because I have a guest coming in at 1:30 to talk about something unrelated to all of this stuff. And so I want to get to something.
So the government gave notice that it is going to be tabling a resolution to borrow $333 million to.
Refinance.
To refinance its purchase of the Grand Bahama Power Company.
When the government initially indicated that it was purchasing the Grand Bauma Power Company it indicated to the public that the cost of that to itself would be $280 million and that it created a special purpose vehicle, the Grand Bahama Energy Company Limited.
And that company, which is government owned, would borrow $200 million through a consortium of banks led by Standard Chartered bank to acquire all the ordinary voting shares of Grandmama Power company and then $80 million in loan from the Royal Bank Bahamas Limited to fund capital expenditure and working capital.
Okay, when you heard that, when you heard that, you should have your, like your air should have put up right there because the government is born. $80 million for capital expenditure and working capital. That means that either the Grand Mama Power Company's Owners Emera were negligent in doing for the Grand Mama Power company what was required to the tune of $80 million inclusive of capital expenditure. Working capital.
Think about that for a moment. Now this, the Grandmama park they've been operating all this while government was not, didn't have a hand in it. Didn't say they need, didn't say they need to go find $80 million and and, and and and and this to do this. And the next thing I'm working capital. You know what working capital is? Working capital is money. You need to keep the business operating just here to get no transformer and you know, just to keep the, the business operating. Working capital.
So that should have perked up our ears but it was. The total was $280 million. So this special purpose vehicle is going to borrow this $280 million. Now again we don't ask enough questions because let me ask you a question.
You form a special purpose vehicle to buy the Grandmama Power Company.
It is going to borrow money to, to do the purchase.
It's only, only the, it's only ability to do that. Borrowing is in a government guarantee. Meaning you the public says if they don't pay, I can pay.
Now that's it. If they don't pay I can pay. Meaning they must have some means of getting revenue to finance a debt.
Where were they going to get this? Where was this special person vehicle going to get this financing from?
It will have to get it from the company it owns. Which company? Grandmama Power Company. But if it could get money from the power company to pay the debt of $280 million, why the power company couldn't borrow the money and pay the debt itself.
You just buy the company.
I need to be slow. Let me be slow for you again on this.
A shell company, the government form called Grand Bahama Energy Co. Ltd. Bought Grand Mama Power Co. Using borrowed monies to the tune of $280 million.
[01:00:40] Speaker F: No.
[01:00:40] Speaker D: No bank would landed that money without a government guarantee. That's why the government went ahead and gave the guarantee.
Because then they know well if they don't pay me this is a shell company, I go to government. Government.
But it's a guarantee. It's not a direct loan. It's a guarantee the government only guaranteed. And meaning that this company has to pay the debt. But how about how is the company going to pay the debt? It could only pay that debt if it was receiving revenue. But where was it going to receive revenue from? The only thing it owns would be the power Company, which means that the power company's revenue to this shell company would be what would pay the debt. So the government didn't have to pay it. But if the power company could pay that company to pay the debt, why the power company couldn't borrow the money it needed to upgrade itself.
Right, to upgrade itself. Now it didn't borrow $280 million to buy itself. I mean I know that's true, right. But the power company could borrow $80 million because its money is going to pay this and it ain't paying the whole debt because the $200 million have to be paid by some means. I don't know.
Right.
So now you have this situation all of a sudden. Now government comes back to the country.
When was election In September.
Right, Elections in September, May and May. Sorry, sorry. May, right.
In May, May, June, July, August, September, October. Five months later the government comes back to the parliament and says no, no, I now want to put on the public purse a direct loan.
Not for $280 million, not for $280 million. Forget guaranteeing anymore.
We are going to assume payment for this power company loan ourselves and we're going to add to the $280 million $130 plus million dollars in debt the power company owns has.
What did we buy?
What did we buy for $200 million?
That has $130 million in debt and $80 million in funding requirements for capital expenditure and.
Working capital. What did we buy?
$331 million. Now direct money is going to add to the central government debt until the national debt. For a company that was operating, doing its business, providing reliable service to the Commonwealth of the Bahamas, providing it at a cost that wasn't substantially different than what the government provides through Bahamas Power and Light.
I don't care what anybody say, you cannot tell me you there's no evidence to support any other thing that the numbers were not that different between what Grand Bahamians were paying and what New Providence people in New Providence were paying.
Now they say they made a decrease in something down there in the black power company. You know who paying that? You and Nassau paying that for people who get duty free bonded license in pre bought you paying that difference right? Now the government says no, no, no, I'm going to take on this debt directly. The payment public is going to take on this debt directly.
What did we buy?
A company that needs the government of the Bahamas to borrow monies to support it. I thought we were out of that business.
Isn't that what we do in The Bahamas there and Water and Sewage Corporation and now BPL and so forth and so forth. Why would we do that?
And five months later, what has changed?
What's the difference?
And how do you realize something, right?
If the Grandmama Power Company aboard that money, it would have to find a means to generate the revenue to pay that money back.
That could only be done through its fees, only be done through its rates.
Well, since the government don't want to do that, it puts it all on all of us now. And you know what that's called? That's called a subsidy of the Grandmama Power rates.
That's what that is.
All that interest rates on $331 million. And by the time it starts paid, it ain't gonna be $331 million to get be 500 plus million dollars. When that's done, then you didn't pay all that interest. Over time the government of the Bahamas decided to bring, to put that on the public curse when the Grand Bahama Power Company was sitting there operating more efficiently, more effectively, more reliably than the Palmer's Light.
Now it's going to be owned by the government and you can pay, you can pay the price for it.
I don't understand it. I just don't. I honestly don't. I don't, I don't, I don't understand mechanics. I don't understand the dynamic. I don't understand. But I, I don't understand. I can only. I don't understand it. And this all took place just before general election.
Just before you're telling me. So, so, so, so, so before I, before I go to my guest, let me, let me tell you something.
You know Costa heck out of me in Ingram for selling 4951 of Bahamas Telecommunications Company for 200 plus million dollars.
Okay, that means the company itself was worth almost $500 million because we only sold 4951 of it. So it was worth about 500 plus million dollars. Almost $500 million. Okay, that was the book value assessed by accountants. Not me, not him. Accountants, you know, cost us. Oh, you left $100 million in cash. Even though any accountant person knows the value of a thing doesn't matter at the end of the day. Once you account for all his assets and liabilities, it doesn't matter if his assets is in cash or in building or etc. At the end of the day the net value is. The net value don't make no difference what you leave in it or don't. Even if you took the $100 million out, it would have been reduced in assets by $100 million and the value would have been reduced by that amount. Doesn't matter. But leave that there which it cost us now the government.
So we paid $200 million.
I mean we got paid $220 million or so for 51% of a company whose revenue at the time was about $300 million a year. $300 million a year. And you said we left $100 million in it.
The government just buy the power company for $200 million, agreed to borrow $80 million to do capital upgrades to it and now is spending an additional $130 million to take on its debt and paid $200 million for it.
And guess what? The revenue of that company is at best 100 something million dollars.
And that's for the whole company.
We have a guest. We know the guest now my guest is coming on after we take the break. So we can take the break right now.
Oh yeah, my guess isn't there yet. So this one should. That, that guess should be online.
[01:09:01] Speaker E: Online. So it should.
[01:09:02] Speaker D: That's not on yet.
[01:09:03] Speaker I: So.
[01:09:03] Speaker D: So that's what we are staring at again to be honest.
A bit of a.
A conundrum. Some explanations can be helpful to understand exactly what is happening. And this is, you know, let me continue to say it isn't that there isn't an explanation. You know, it might just be that there isn't one given and you know, and when you get one then maybe you can do. Okay, so we're gonna take a break, ladies and gentlemen, and when I come back, I'm gonna return to my guests. You're listening to Z Live. I'm Chevalgo Lang, your host. We'll be back after this break.
[01:09:52] Speaker B: Everybody, everybody come take my.
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[01:13:33] Speaker A: work this is Guardian Radio 96.9 FM. Fresh news, smart talk all day.
[01:13:44] Speaker B: I'm not afraid I'm not afraid to take a stand Take a stand Everybody, everybody come take my, come take my we'll walk this road together through the storm, whatever Weather, cold, the war Let me know that you're not alone.
[01:14:11] Speaker D: Welcome back. Welcome back ladies, ladies and gentlemen to Z Live. I'm Shivago Lang, your host. So glad that you could join me here today on Guardian Radio 96.9 FM on this on this beautiful Tuesday afternoon, I did indicate to you that I Have a special guest to talk about an important event coming up.
Hello, Dr. Les V. Archer. How are you?
[01:14:37] Speaker F: Hello, Mr. Lang, my good and faithful boss. I'm good. How are you?
[01:14:43] Speaker D: One wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. I know you are associated besides the Government and Public Policy Institute, which you are not talking about right now, but something else. And you are not permitted to talk about this until you let people know that, historically speaking, the first champion of this event is talking to you today.
[01:15:05] Speaker F: You know, I went for something who's. Whose win is always in the past. Those ones you have to be careful about.
[01:15:11] Speaker D: No, but it's the first one, though. It's historic,
[01:15:18] Speaker F: I agree.
[01:15:20] Speaker D: What is this event? What is this event that I'm a champion of?
[01:15:26] Speaker F: What an introduction. What am I here for?
[01:15:29] Speaker D: Hey, man, that's what you. That's what. That's what you call selfish gratuity, you
[01:15:33] Speaker F: know, well deserved, though. Well deserved because Mr. Lang is very.
[01:15:43] Speaker D: Did we. Did we. Did we lose you?
Leslie, we're not. If you might be on mute, we're not hearing you, so. Until we get lesbian.
[01:15:55] Speaker F: Hello? Can you hear me?
[01:15:56] Speaker D: Yeah, Yeah, I can hear you now.
[01:15:57] Speaker F: I can hear you now. Go ahead.
[01:15:58] Speaker D: I can hear you. Yes, I can hear you now. Go ahead.
Hi, Lesbi. We can hear you now. I could hear you now.
[01:16:07] Speaker F: Okay, great. So I just want to tell everybody to invite everyone to the golf tournament. It's for Clef of the Rock Foundation.
It's this Saturday.
As Mr. Lang said, it's an annual Sunday.
It is this Sunday. Sunday, yes, it is this Sunday.
And it is for Class of the Rock foundation, whose focus is on parenting and raising healthy families, giving parents the tools and skills that they need to. That we need to raise healthy, responsible, employable, marriageable adults. Those are the three principles of the Parenting On Purpose Foundation. I mean, the parenting on purpose costs that this golf tournament and the fundraising event that it is designed, that the funds will go towards. Towards strengthening this. And this is a free program that's offered in the Bahamas and throughout the US I'm a graduate of the program twice. Mr. Lang is also a graduate of the program, and he was a host, I think, on more, at least one occasion. But we want to get everyone involved, everyone supporting this event. If you believe in the village, if you believe in family, if you believe in people who are sacrificing and committing day to day to care for children, who may not be seen, who may not be heard, to care for parents, a place where we can go to ask questions and talk and discuss and gain advice, then you want to support this golf tournament this Sunday at Bahama
[01:17:44] Speaker D: and the golf tournament, it's a one day. It's a one day tournament, right?
[01:17:51] Speaker F: Yes, it's a one day tournament. And I'm going to tell you right now, it is very exciting to see Mr. Mr. Lang. Will you be there this year to see Mr. Lang in his attire, dressed down to the table?
[01:18:06] Speaker D: No, unfortunately, my golfing prowess has me going elsewhere. I have to go golf in Asia, so I might not gonna be able to do that.
[01:18:14] Speaker F: But I have a. Yeah, yeah, I have a number.
[01:18:18] Speaker D: I have a number of able people who will try to replicate what I did in the first tournament. And so we have a number of people, but we have some slots still open. There's some slots still open for people who want to participate. You might be a company, right? Or you could be an individual and you want to participate. There's still some, some slots open, but you got to, you got to register today. So tell them how they could register if people want to register. And I know all kind of golfers out there who won't be able to say what I say. Listen, I'm a champion, right? You know?
[01:18:53] Speaker F: But yes. Clef of the rock foundation.org if we know the song He Hides me in the clef of the rock. And we are working hard to care for the children that are being hidden, that need to be hid, and even parents too. And we need some comfort. But clefoftherockfoundation.org once you go on the page, you can see the link for the golf tournament. You want to be there. The weather is going to be great. It's 375 per person. But you can sign up companies. We have companies that come out every year to sign up there to show their support. Because again, yes, you want to play, yes, you want to compete, but it's for such a good cause. It's for the children, it's for the village, it's for the family. And Clef of the Rock foundation has an outstanding track record at helping and building up the villages where we are and when we need especially the foundation, the founder, Dr. Latina Lightburn. So we want you to go clefoftherockfoundation.org and we want you to sign up. And that is on Sunday. And right before that, there is a charity night on October 17th that will be at Cafe Matisse. It starts at six. Tickets for that is 1:25. We want to see you there. But if you can make a donation for your ticket, please feel free to do. So we want as much of a support, as much of an encouragement as you can give towards this foundation, towards family, towards our village on charity night. So that's at Cafe Matisse, October 17th. Tickets are $125. Again, if you go on the website. Clefoftherockfoundation.org Remember the song, he Hides Me in the clef of the Rock? And go to clefoftherockfoundation.org and sign up. You will see the beautiful flyers. You will see all of the invitations. You can sign up a team of four company or if you want to be matched to a team and just have a day out in golf. This Sunday is a great day. It's a great day in October to go and play golf.
You know what I do want to say? We have so many sponsors. Oh, go on.
[01:21:08] Speaker D: Oh, no, no, go ahead, go ahead. You go talk about the sponsors so you can get some more people. Come on, come. Yeah, get some more.
[01:21:15] Speaker F: Yeah. I do want to say we have so many sponsors, so many annual sponsors for this event. And I just want to give a big shout out to the following companies. We have Migraphil, we have the TRAP Group. Migraphil is an annual sponsor. We have the TRAP Group. We have Keystone, Guardian Radio. Big ups to Guardian, Radio, Fidelity bank, my favorite bank ever. Craven. We have the premier dental group, Sandals Resort, Gastro Care Bahamas. They show up and they Play. We have Dr. Jacoby, we have Global Sun Integration Management.
And this is just going to be a fantastic, a fantastic day. 8am this Sunday at Bahama and the pre golf kickoff fundraising dinner is at Cafe Matisse on Saturday night at 6pm it is not too late to register for both. Go to the website now. Go to the website today, this evening, put it on your calendar and we want to see you there. You can make a donation as well. You can send an email and somebody will respond as soon as we can. Clefoftherockfoundation.org Let me, let me just say this, okay?
[01:22:25] Speaker D: I participated in the golf tournament and I have not been a participant in a golf tournament before that one.
And it is first class. I mean it is so well organized. It is like it's rarely the gifts, the breakfast, the lunch, I mean just it's a great time. And I, I, I saw people who golf a lot who indicated, listen, man, I've been to golf tournaments. This is not me now. This is people who golf saying, I've been to golf tournaments and this is one of the best organized golf tournaments. So it's really, while you can enjoy the golf, you get to do a great.
Support a great cause. It's really a quality experience. I'm in a quality experience, fun, you know, fun competition. And when I did it, the two other people.
One other person with me didn't. Didn't really golf before.
Maybe two. Two other people didn't golf before, but then we enjoyed the night, and even the professional people enjoy it. So it's. It's a great bonding experience for companies, for their staff, great bonding experience for families, you know, and for friends. And so if you're out there, I mean, listen, man, I think they got a few. Like, a couple. A few more spots. But register.
Go and register. I guarantee you'll have a great. You'll have a great, great time.
I believe that. And the cause is really good, good, great. You're seeing what's happening every day in our world when it comes to parenting. You're seeing some of the challenges people are having, parents are having, the children are having, the society is having.
And the more you can help people get some of those basic skills, that basic information, that foundational information to support their parenting effort. We're doing all ourselves a favor, because guess what? A child who's on the right path isn't a child who's on the wrong path to do something to your child who's on the right path.
I lie. I lie. Lesbi,
[01:24:46] Speaker F: You speak the truth. You speak the truth. And I want to put in a plug for Parenting on Purpose. That is the name of the program, one of the programs that this golf fundraiser will be supporting.
Parenting on Purpose is free. It's a free parenting education program.
Free for parents, for grandparents, for guardians, for even teens who plan at some point in the future to become parents or their caretakers for teachers. Parenting on Purpose. Educational training in parenting. I was attracted to it because I love to learn. I love to learn. And I'm like, I'm having a child. I. How do I do this? How do I do this? And I searched. I literally searched online. I tried to figure out how to get. To learn about parenting, to be the perfect parent. And this program gave me tools, a toolkit to succeed.
Yes, Mr. Lyon.
[01:25:42] Speaker D: And by the way, you are a PhD.
You are a person who's very educated, along with other doctors, lawyers, bankers, all kinds of people are doing the same parenting course. So don't come tell me about. Oh, I need no parenting cost, man. If you got any sense, you'll take this one or you'll take one.
[01:26:05] Speaker F: Yes. And I mean if you love your kids, if you want to be the best, to be the best for them you like, I don't know who wouldn't do it. And you can find the time to do it. And it's free. It's a free small groups format online now. It is so good that all of the classes are actually full for the rest of the year. They are completely full.
You go to the website again. Clefoftherockfoundation.org he hides me in the clef of the rock. Remember the song? Sign up for the newsletter. You can also sign up for a class next year. But sign up for the newsletter so that you can stay in touch with us, so that you can hear what's going on, so that you can connect with other parents in the country and across the seas. We're in several different countries as well and we want you to be a part of us. If you care about the children, if you care about the nation, about the future and contribute your time, your talents, your wisdom, your advice, we want you to join us.
Clefoftherockfoundation.org he hides me in the clef of the rock site. Sign up for the newsletter today. Let's see you at the pre.
Let us see you at the golf tournament on this coming Sunday. Corporations with your teams, individuals you want to get to know, meet, mix and mingle. You can never know too many people, right? I say you can never know too many people. But let's make this a reality and let's make this an exceptional event.
[01:27:47] Speaker D: If you have any difficulty connecting, text me. Text me on 439-3043 and I'll get you to who can help you because we, we want to help. We want the support. So you can text me on 439-3043 and. And I will direct you to where you can go so that Sunday. You, you. I know Sunday is church day.
God can understand. For one day, for the family, for the children.
All right, ladies and gentlemen, thank you so very much. Leslie. Dr. Leslie. Actually, we appreciate you coming on and. And keep your. Keep up the good work. Left of the Rock Foundation. All right.
Thank you much. Ladies and gentlemen, you're listening to Z Live. We're going to take our final break and when we come back, we will wrap up our show. We'll be back after this break.
Man, I can't wait to eat. I am starving. You know US support never disappoints. Boy, I left my wallet in the room. No way I'm going back.
[01:29:04] Speaker F: Relax, buddy. You've got your phone, right?
[01:29:06] Speaker H: Yeah, I do.
[01:29:07] Speaker E: Perfect.
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[01:32:14] Speaker F: Today,
[01:32:17] Speaker D: Fidelity,
[01:32:20] Speaker B: we're good for you.
[01:32:27] Speaker A: This is Guardian Radio, 96.9 FM. Fresh news, smart talk all day.
[01:32:37] Speaker B: I'm not afraid I'm not afraid to take a stand Take a stand Everybody, everybody Come take my, Come take my we'll walk this road together through the storm what, Whatever Weather, cold, the war Let me know that you're not alone.
[01:33:04] Speaker D: Welcome, welcome back. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to Z Live. I'm Cheval, your host. So glad you could join us for these remaining moments of the show. This text says, good day, Mr. Lang.
I am a 45 year old man from North Andrus. This is the most secretive government ever I ever experienced, says this text.
This text says, true the $700 million. Oh, we read that before. This text is, good afternoon, Mr. Lang. Mr. Miles Monroe once said, the greatest weapon any politician has over its people is ignorance. They tell you what they want you to know because ignorance keeps you powerless. Okay. This text says, good afternoon, Mr. Lang. Good show. I really hope the opposition is listening to you and also come to you for advice on the way forward and understanding how the country's money is being spent. Keep up the good work, says that text.
This. Thank you. This text says, is anyone in Bahamas Grid beneficial interest in Bahamas Grid or any government minister or beneficial owner in GB Energy Company? Reminds me of Eric Gardner. Gardner's company also had a weird SPV with a loan through a Jamaican financier. They ultimately defaulted on the loan, putting the government on the hook for the debt. No one.
None of this makes sense. The only outcome of this appears to be an asset is now in the hands of someone that we don't want anything about, we don't know anything about.
Well, you know whose hands the Grandma Power Company is going to be in is going to be in the government's hand. The Grandma Power company was purchased 100% by the government. So as far as I'm aware, there's no private interest involved with that purchase.
It may have been useful for the government to consider providing some private shares in the power company. But of course, you know the Grandmama Power Company also has private shareholders. You know, I wonder if they had a meeting of the shareholders to approve the sale of the Grandma Power Company. I didn't hear about any. But anyway, this says Boxman appears to have the same setup. A private company, Eaton or running entity adding their profit on top and doubling the cost of baming people.
[01:35:17] Speaker E: Wow.
[01:35:18] Speaker D: This text says Mr. Lang. I hope Gardner listening to this fella come like he pro government and want the government to own these corporations to borrow money to put us in more debt.
Suck my teeth. I don't know what you mean. God know.
We have a call on the line. Go ahead caller, we're listening to you.
[01:35:39] Speaker E: Good afternoon, how are you?
[01:35:41] Speaker D: Right here man, what's up?
[01:35:43] Speaker E: Okay. Good afternoon to the nation. Just have a quick couple questions.
You noted the difference which you raise as a discrepancy, the difference with the fiscal console's report on borrowings and the Ministry of Financial Fiscal reporting, correct?
[01:36:06] Speaker D: No, no, not correct. I didn't say that there was any discrepancy at all.
[01:36:11] Speaker E: But you noted the difference between the two.
[01:36:15] Speaker D: Yeah, I just noted that in the same fiscal year.
[01:36:19] Speaker E: One was saying 1.8 you said earlier.
[01:36:23] Speaker D: No, sir. No sir, that was not my contention at all. What I was saying was if you look at the budget document, it has borrowing proceeds for 2024, 2025 requirement as actual provisional of 2.5 plus billion dollars.
And if you look at the annual borrowing plan of the government for 2024, 2025, it says that the requirements for refinancing is $1.8 billion, which are both the numbers the minister used. That's what I said.
[01:37:02] Speaker E: So could the difference be accounted for in off book debt?
[01:37:08] Speaker D: There's no difference. There's no difference. There's no difference. That's not what I'm pointing to at all.
I'm not creating any dispute. I'm saying that it would appear that the net borrowing situation excess came in 2024, 2025 and not in 2025, 2026. That's all I said.
And that's from the two documents.
Okay, given the two documents.
So I. What.
[01:37:39] Speaker E: So you. Where did you include the fiscal responsibility console's report of the 1.8 bill?
[01:37:47] Speaker D: Yeah, that's. I'm saying that is saying that the borrowing, the repayment requirement for that year was $1.8 billion. That's all that said.
And I'm saying in that year, the
[01:38:01] Speaker E: repayment on what, Chivago?
[01:38:04] Speaker D: The repayment of government debt. The gross repayment of government debt on.
[01:38:09] Speaker E: On recurring.
[01:38:10] Speaker F: It ain't on nothing.
[01:38:11] Speaker D: It's on the. It's the debt. It's the debt. It's the government's debt. For that year.
[01:38:14] Speaker E: I understand that. I don't think you're hearing what I'm asking, but I'm trying. I'm trying to ask you.
[01:38:19] Speaker D: I'm done. Don't. I'm done. I'm done. Don't insult me, man. Let me, Let me tell you the words. You, you asked me. You said, on what. What was there for me not to know, to hear?
You said, on what? And I'm saying, what do you mean, on what?
[01:38:32] Speaker E: Let me ask you another way. What I'm trying to ask you.
Okay. The 1.8 of the fiscal Responsibility Council's reporting on government borrowing proceeds, does that include or reference guarantees the government would have made public private partnerships the government would have entered into loans the government would have advanced to?
[01:38:57] Speaker D: Doesn't it, it doesn't. It doesn't do that. And it doesn't matter for me what it says. That's irrelevant. What it says is for the year, the government's borrowing plan for repayment is $1.8 billion. What that entails is not my business because they didn't give it to me to be my business.
[01:39:16] Speaker E: Okay? Okay, so let me ask you this final question. And Chicago, and then I'd like to ask them in the Grand Bahama Power Company.
[01:39:24] Speaker D: I have two. I have two minutes. I have two minutes left. Two minutes.
[01:39:27] Speaker E: Is it, Is it normal that there is a difference between fiscal responsibility reporting and the actuals?
[01:39:40] Speaker D: There can be. There can be a difference.
Okay, but, but, but, but, but that. The difference isn't. But, but. No, there can be. Well, it doesn't even really matter if there's a difference because the minister told us. Minister told us. Listen, I have a 1.8 billion dollar repayment need, and I got $700 million more. I got 2.5 billion. So even in the actual realities of life, that can. That difference can exist.
But you keep going to Antoine, you keep going to difference. Difference is not an issue. I'm not disputing anything with difference. Nothing, okay? Nothing at all.
[01:40:14] Speaker E: That's. That's sort of what I got.
[01:40:16] Speaker D: No dispute about any difference.
[01:40:18] Speaker E: Okay?
[01:40:19] Speaker D: Yeah, well, you got me wrong. That's not what I'm saying. If you wanted, if you want, if you wanted to know what the difference is. No, see this. My, My audience, I need my audience not to be confused. If you wanted to know what the difference is, my difference was in the year this was booked. That's my difference. The difference is, it seemed to me from the document that the year, the fiscal year was 2024, 2025. And that the year referenced in the communication appeared to be 2025. 2026. That's the difference.
And I can explain that difference by saying if you could transfer $700 million at the beginning of a budget year, you had to get that money somewhere. And I would say you got it in the prior year.
And that would make sense.
All right, ladies and gentlemen, you've been listening to Z Live and Chip Bible and your host. So glad that you could join us today. God's Best life. We'll be back with you again tomorrow. You all have a fantastic, fantastic afternoon.
