Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: The views and opinions of the hosts and guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the management and staff of Guardian Radio.
[00:00:12] Speaker B: I'm not afraid I'm not afraid to take a stand Take a stand Everybody, everybody come take my hand Come take my we'll walk this road together through the storm whatever weather, cold, the warm Just let me know that you're not alone if you feel like you.
[00:00:42] Speaker C: Welcome ladies and gentlemen to Z Live. I'm Cheval, I'm your host. So glad you could join us here today on Guardian Radio 96.9 FM on this beautiful Monday afternoon. I trust in hope that you are doing well Before I go on Producer, let me know if our audio is clear please. I'll make sure Let me know if the audio is clear Mr. Producer, we are coming to you live today. Guess what? From Singapore. You got it from Singapore and it's 1215 where you are.
But it's 12 midnight where I am. You got it midnight, 1215 midnight.
Anyways, we're going to try to make sure we come to you live as often as possible but I can't promise you I'm going to do this live every midnight for the next several days more than a week that I'm here in the Asia region but we are going to, we are going to as often as possible provide you with a fresh show whether that's a live or pre recorded show.
I am in Singapore Arrived in Singapore a day before yesterday participated in the Bahamas Asia Forum which is an opportunity for the Ministry responsible for Financial Services to promote the Bahamas as a financial services jurisdiction in the Asia region.
The Minister responsible for Economic Affairs Senator the Honorable Jerome Fitzgerald was a participant presenter in the forum yesterday. It went very well, it was very well attended by significant players in the in the financial services wealth management arena in Singapore.
Minister Fitzgerald did an excellent job communicating the Bahamas disadvantage for Asian wealth in the seeking or potentially to use the Bahamas as a financial center. Of course you know Singapore is itself a global financial center and has a very successful global financial center.
The Bahamas has of course a successful international financial center. They do different things, some of the same things for different things but there was highlighted the possibility of the possibility of synergies in Singapore and the Bahamas to service clients, wealthy clients interested in managing their wealth and succession planning in ensuring they have the level of diversity in the.
In the securing of their assets and it was a great meeting really was able. We were able to meet quite a number of people from Singapore who managed wealth who are looking at those kinds of opportunities. And they were intrigued to learn more about the bahamas. And so Mr. Fitzgerald was joined by a number of persons from the private sector in the Bahamas. Ambassador Tony Ferguson. Anthony Ferguson, who of course is one of the owners of the Guardian Radio, was also a presenter there talking about the Bahamas Carbon Credit Initiative.
And it was a good moment, I thought, for the Bahamas. And the responses from the audience seemed to suggest that. So it was good to be here for that. And kudos to Minister Jerome Fitzgerald, who is quite knowledgeable about these matters and who articulates that knowledge extremely well. And so kudos to him and to his team.
Brandis Duncanson, who was the director of that unit there in the Ministry of Economic affairs.
Of course, you know, I participated in this last year.
And so from here on to Shanghai to do the same thing. So you all pray for me, see how we could keep doing this for you. 12:00 clock in the midnight.
[00:06:05] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:06:09] Speaker C: If you want to give us a call today, the numbers are 323-6232. That's 323-6232 or 325-431-635-4316.
You can call us also on 325-4259. That's 325-4259.
Or you can, if you are in the family islands, call us on 242-300-5720, that's 242-300-5720.
You can text us on 422-4796, that's 422-4796. Or you can WhatsApp me on 439-3043. That's 439-3043. One of the things I also take note of is Singapore has 244,000 millionaires.
Of course, this is a country of just a little over 6 million people. 244,000 millionaires. It's a lot of millionaires. But as a percentage of the population. Don't get carried away.
It's about, it's about.
What would that be now?
2 to 4%? 1 or 2, forgive my math.
And then it has 55 billionaires. 55 billionaires. The richest of all those billionaires is a 44 year old man who was one of the founders of creators of Meta and partnered with Facebook's founders
[00:08:03] Speaker B: to
[00:08:04] Speaker C: amass that great fortune of his.
Singapore is in many, many ways all that you hear about a clean, organized society when coming through the airport. I've never had and I've traveled to about 44 countries and territories around the world. Now, I have never had a smooth and effortless a move through a country's airport as I had through Singapore's airport.
No significant interaction with immigration or customs, just my passport being presented to some electronic device. And you know, there are people who are there to assist you should you have some difficulty, but just very smooth movement through the airport.
And so it is in many, many ways what people talk about.
Tomorrow I will meet with a couple of the public policy institutes in Singapore to talk about potential cooperation and relationships with them.
Because there are many ways in which we could benefit from a deeper relationship and cooperation with Singapore.
Yesterday, someone sent me a video of a nurse.
Yes, Someone is telling me less than 5%. Yes, less than 5% of Singaporeans are millionaires. I suspect if you do a calculation, if you could find out how many millionaires exist in the Bahamas, and I'm talking about behavior millionaires, you, you'd probably come come to around about the same thing.
For those of you sitting out there thinking, oh, why we can't be like Singapore, I suspect you will find that there's almost about 5% of Bahamians who are millionaires for sure.
But anyway, someone sent a video
[00:10:31] Speaker D: of
[00:10:33] Speaker C: a nurse sitting in the back of a private vehicle with a patient covered up being transported somewhere.
Cause this is, this was in Andros. And they were making the point that this is so, so terrible, that this is the circumstance in which Androsians find themselves.
Now, let me say this right. I believe that this video is real.
I don't have any reason to believe the video isn't real.
But even if it's not real, and I believe it's real, it does point to something that can make the notion of a surplus on the government's part laughable.
Okay. Because I know of many other examples, whether it is a clinic desperately in need of air conditioning or a hospital desperately in need of supplies, or a road desperately, but in need of conditioning or, or maintenance, or an area desperately in public area in need of cleaning or buildings desperately in need of maintenance.
I can spot area after area, not a few, not a few areas after areas within the Commonwealth of the Bahamas where basic, basic public goods and services are not provided.
And yet we can and feel comfortable about touting the notion of a historic surplus in the Commonwealth of the Bahamas.
Now that is aside from the very legitimate, legitimate circumstances under which one might question whether this is a surplus or not, I can, and I will talk about some of those again later on, but it is a. Someone might well say, including myself, how Laughable. It is laughable. It is to have basic things, basic public necessities not provided, not provided adequately, while at the same time we are comfortable about saying we have a budget surplus.
You see public efforts about which a government wants to brag, a government wants to be proud, Need be felt and experienced by the public.
It's like a parent or parents touting their financial success, but their home is in disrepair in ways that seem a grave contradiction to the financial circumstances that they are touting.
That the children have provisions not in hand, that their financials, the parents financial situation seems to offend.
And this is really one of the things that I want to really get in our heads today.
F M PLP doesn't matter.
Things.
Things that governments do have to reflect in reality on the people that they serve.
That if the government finds itself having to do too much explaining as to why what it is doing is good for you, then obviously you are not experiencing the good.
Not to the degree that you can say to the government, I see what you're doing.
And this is what is important, is it not?
What's important is I see, I feel what you are doing. I experience it all. And it doesn't even mean that I see it or feel it personally, but it is sufficiently manifest that I can say to you before you say to me, I feel you.
That is what is important.
A government that is producing a surplus should not have an island, should not have a clinic, should not have a government office without adequate supplies,
[00:16:38] Speaker D: right?
[00:16:39] Speaker C: Should not have a situation in which their citizens find themselves in an emergency situation unable to secure proper transportation. Shouldn't, Right?
Because these are basic things. These are not, These are not. This isn't, this isn't an AI policy.
Artificial intelligence is evolving new and emerging.
This isn't an AI policy.
This is medicine. Basic medicine for the page the people of the Bahamas who you want to protect against AI if something should go wrong, right? This is medicine for them to live, to live well.
It is roads for them to drive on, to drive efficiently on and to not to have their vehicles destroyed, falling into potholes.
This is a, this is a, this is a side road cleaned because you want your citizens to live in an aesthetically beautiful place and you want the visitors to your place to see that you have a pride in the appearance of your country.
Basic things.
These are teachers in need of supplies to educate your citizenry so that they can understand what the hell AI is. And AI policy is these are your nurses which you need sufficient of to be able to attend to the emergency health needs of your citizens. These are basic things.
Basic things. Basic, basic things.
It's not a question of doing the one or the other. It's a question of doing the one while you do the other. But if you have to choose between the one and the other, you think I would choose between a questionable surplus and those basic things for the society? I definitely would not. And many countries, many countries around the world would run deficits and have not. Singapore ran a deficit up to 2023, 2022, 2023.
They've run surpluses for 2025-2026-2024-2025.
So they've run surpluses for the last two fiscal years or so.
But this is a country you can move around and it ain't perfect, but you surely will see that some basic things are in place.
You're listening to Z live on Chevalgo Line, your host. We'll be back after this break.
[00:19:51] Speaker B: Walk this road together through the storm, whatever weather, cold, the warm, Let me know that you're not alone. Hola if you feel like you.
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[00:23:07] Speaker B: I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid to take a stand.
Take a stand.
Everybody, everybody come take my hand. Come.
[00:23:40] Speaker C: Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome back. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Z Live. I'm Cheval O. Lang, your host. So glad that you could join us here today on Guardian Radio 96.9 FM on this beautiful Monday afternoon. So glad that you could join us. If you want to call the numbers are 323-6232 or 325-4316 or 325-4259. You can call us from the Family Islands on 2423-00-5720. You can text us on 422-4796, or you can WhatsApp me on 439-3043.
We're talking today about the fact that a video is circulating of a nurse sitting on the back of a private vehicle transporting a patient in Andrus and using it as an example of one of any number of things that we can give examples about of basic things in the Bahamas not provided while the government says it has a surplus.
While the government is wont to tell you that it has an historic surplus, an overall surplus never achieved in an independent Bahamas.
What is true is you'll notice that the Prime Minister said an independent Bahamas because in a non independent Bahamas we achieved surpluses.
But this was a time when the eastern boys had no problems maintaining a surplus. While education in the Bahamas suffered, while basic infrastructure in the family islands in the Providence suffered, while many basic public services suffered While they had a surplus.
Do you catch that right?
In an, in a non independent Bahamas, the same eastern road US Eastern road, so called Bay street boys carried a government surplus, carried a government surplus while the Princess Margaret hospital was crap, while the infrastructure in the family islands was defunct. And on many instances we mean defunct. Until Cuba Alexander went and put some basic infrastructure in place during his tenure.
While they could say they had a surplus.
And there is a disconnect in the minds of people between the absence of basic provision for people and a surplus being in quote carried by the government.
There is and there should be, there's no question there should be such a thing. Because you think to yourself, well, if you're achieving a surplus, shouldn't vendors be paid?
Shouldn't the hospital be supplied, certain islands afford ambulances, shouldn't roads be paved properly?
You think that right? Or you think otherwise? You say, you know what, in order to achieve these basic things, I'm going to borrow. I'm going to spend more than I make, which is a deficit. I'm going to borrow for that. I won't borrow to pay salaries, I won't borrow to pay leases, I won't borrow to pay rent.
But, but borrowing on the capital side to meet basic needs, I will do that because that just makes sense.
And you have a difficulty with that, right? Because surpluses shouldn't exist simply for the sake of saying you have a surplus.
Can I tell you that again? That's a fact.
Okay.
It's no different than this.
I borrowed monies I did not have to finance my education at the George Washington University.
I borrowed twenty something thousand dollars to do it.
Why? Because I wanted a master's to give me the ability to earn more in the future.
When I went and spoke to the bank, the bank said to me, you know, when you get this loan, the interest rate on this loan is going to be lower than you would pay on a unsecured loan. Now, this loan wasn't secured, it wasn't backed by anything. It didn't. There was no collateral backing this loan.
But they said, we regard this as a professional loan because it is a loan that you are investing in your own development that would improve your income prospects over time. And it did.
And so when a country looks at itself and sees, my God, what a degraded infrastructure I have, what a deficiency in the public health infrastructure I have, what a deficiency in the health education infrastructure I have, what are deficiency in the, in the court infrastructure that I have, what a deficiency in my ability to provide for these basic things. In my society, you know what? I could ignore all of those things and then say I have a surplus or I could supply those things and carry a reasonable, manageable, sustainable deficit for a time.
This is a repeatable, repeatable, sensible, logical, rational, prudent, fiscal way to proceed.
Many of the companies you see out there, who you call successful companies, many of them, they carry in debt today and in the course of growing their businesses, carry deficits, many of them.
There's nothing wrong with that if it's a part of your growth and development plan, a part of providing for the basic needs of your company, to keep it to be a going concern.
But to ignore those basic things, why you doubt that you're doing so well can only be to your own undoing.
It is especially interesting that you have these basic deficiencies. For instance, as you might have in Andros and elsewhere, when the government of the Bahamas, in the year that it recorded its surplus, borrowed in excess of $700 million, borrowed in excess of $700 million, said that it parked that $700 million in a national investment fund, in a national investment fund, translucently accounted for some $310.9 million of that spending, translucently saying that it spent this to acquire assets, to upgrade airports, et cetera. All of said it did these things.
And yet, and yet, and yet, and Andros, like others, would be without a basic thing like a properly functioning ambulance.
And, and, and this is why, while 389/million of that $700 million remains unaccounted for, where did you spend $700 million and have given deficiencies at the Princess Margaret Hospital, deficiencies at your clinics, deficiencies in respect of ambulances, where do you spend $700 million? These are the, the, the kinds of disconnects that lead to public trust weaning.
Because if people can see, experience
[00:32:14] Speaker D: the
[00:32:15] Speaker C: benefits of the gains of the reporting about these kinds of things, then people go to say, you know, this is where government is working, this is how government works. This makes sense to me.
But no, not only do you not have some of these basic needs being met, basic needs being met. If you, if you come to Singapore and you walk outside Singapore, you will see that it is a garden city, that greenery exists, I mean, throughout the places where I have been so far, right?
That doesn't happen by accident, that's intentional. That's a part of public planning, right? And you see it and you, and it's manifest and it makes a difference, right? And so they, and so if you're a Singaporean you can experience that.
Well, it is no different when you as a Bahamian can look and see what your country is billions and billions of dollars spent later in one fiscal year, two plus billion dollars borrowed.
And you can look outside and you ask yourself, where's the green? Where's the beauty? Where's the aesthetics? Where's the upkeep? Where's the upgrade? Where is it?
And it creates a disconnect.
And I'm telling you, listen to me man.
You can take this wherever you want to take this in the world.
But listen to me. The Bahamas has to accomplish this one basic thing soon, okay? And it has to sustain it, sustain it for a long, long time, if not forever.
It has to restore people's trust in governance.
Let me say it again. If you are Prime Minister Davis, if you are leaders of any of the opposition parties, if you are members of the government, the governing party or any other party, if your doggone mindset is not to restore, ensure and maintain public trust, you are not contributing to the forward direction ongoing development of the Commonwealth of the Bahamas.
Because a people who do not trust its government are a people that will not cooperate with that government to accomplish the necessary development outcomes of the country.
You're listening to Z Live. I'm Chevaguleng, your host. I'll be back after this break.
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[00:38:54] Speaker B: I'm not afraid I'm not afraid to take a stand Take a stand Everybody, everybody come take my, come take my we'll walk this road together.
[00:39:31] Speaker C: Welcome back. Welcome back ladies and gentlemen, gentlemen to Z Live. I'm Zhivago Lang, your host. So glad that you could join us here today on Guardian Radio 96.9 FM on this beautiful Monday afternoon.
Someone sent me interesting an interesting text actually said apparently Grand Bahama Power Company was carrying a deficit while giving its customer satisfactory service. The light were not lights were not turning off on a regular basis. And that is true.
That is very true.
[00:40:12] Speaker D: All right.
[00:40:13] Speaker C: Again again the when you look at when you look at the notion of a surplus touted by the government under, I have to concede, some questionable questionable and we talk about that on the other side of the news break. Some questionable circumstances.
That's the basic idea of a surplus in the Face of the many, many, not few, many, many basic deficiencies in the governance of the Bahamas. One, it wouldn't be cruel to say that such a thing is laughable. It wouldn't be cruel at all because it is. You know, you think, see, this is what I find really intriguing about my country.
That it seems somehow when we get in government it seems like not, not all, not every person who's been in government. Now for instance, this isn't true, this isn't true in every administration or it isn't true to the same degree in, in every administration. So don't, so I don't want anybody say oh fnmp IP all like nonsense, nonsense, nonsense, nonsense.
When, when Celinden became Prime Minister, there was a period of time where the Bahamas without question experienced progress vis a vis what was happening in the Bahamas before he became Prime Minister.
The development of schools or, well, some public infrastructure and institutions was clearly undertaken so that Bahamians, through Bahamianization and the like saw experience that difference in their life, in their lives. Right? That, that's clear. And anyone who wants to deny that can go right ahead, but you'll be denying the truth.
But there was a price paid for some of that. And the price was the deficit spending that was taking place under Solindon that wasn't taking place under the, you, the Bay Street Boys, right?
And so that helped to, that deficit, helped to push the country forward to a degree.
Hubert Alexander Ingram, in his first two terms ran a deficit every single year.
Every single year. It was only, it wasn't until later on in his term that he was able to run two years of surpluses on the recurrent side of the budget.
On the recurrent side of the budget he ran a surplus. And the deficit, overall deficit was less than in some instances, 1%. Listen to me again, less than 1%.
Okay? In the 90s, less than 1% of GDP.
Okay?
In that period of time he had no VAT.
He introduced no new taxes.
In that period of time he did no excessive, no excess borrowings in that period of time he didn't have $700 million out there for which he would not account.
In that period of time he introduced no new tax and increased no tax.
None.
But in that period of time he grew the Bahamas revenue base from below a billion dollars to above $2 billion. In that period of time.
And in that period of time the Bahamas experienced the lowest unemployment it had seen in, in 40 plus years.
An income equality it hadn't seen before or matched since.
Okay?
And he ran A surplus Iran deficit but the deficit was on the capital side of the budget and so he borrowed the fund capital expenditure what happened in that period of time? Water, roads, lights etc were extended to the family islands clinics were built or upgraded in that period of time schools were built for the first time in 30 plus years schools were built primary schools and high schools Go check it out.
Go check it out.
Check out how many new schools were built in the whole 25 years that Lyndon was in office compared to the number of schools that were built when Hubert Ingram was in office for the first two terms.
Check it out.
Go look and see.
It was manifest what was happening even though the man was running GFS deficit of around 1% and man producing surpluses heavily criticized by the PLP at the time on the recurrent account meaning the man said I'm not borrowing any money to pay for salaries and rents and post still stamps and these kinds of things and people rewarded him for his efforts because they could experience it and it was manifest people didn't stay home in any grave numbers when the election game especially in 1997. You're listening to Z Live. I'm Cheval, I'm your host we're going to take a break for news we'll be back after the news break.
[00:46:34] Speaker B: I'm not afraid I'm not afraid to take a stand Take a stand every Everybody everybody come take my Come take my we'll walk this road together through the storm Whatever weather cold the warm Let me know that you're not alone.
[00:47:07] Speaker A: This is Guardian Radio 96.9 FM streaming on guardiantalkradio.com and the Guardian radio app Nassau Bahamas.
[00:47:31] Speaker B: RO Together through the storm Whatever weather cold the war Let me know that you're not alone.
Foreign.
[00:48:02] Speaker C: Welcome back welcome back ladies and gentlemen to Z Live. I'm Shabagulang, your host Just so glad that you could join us here today on Guardian Radio 96.9 FM on this beautiful Monday afternoon afternoon for you, one o' clock in the morning for me but so glad you could join us if you want to call the numbers are 323-6232 that's 323-6232 or 325-431-635-4316 or 325-4259 that's 325-4259 you can call us if you are in the family islands toll free on 242-300-5720 that's 242-300-5720 you can text us on 422-4796. That's 422-4796. So you can WhatsApp me on 439-3043.
Someone asked me what the government did with the $39 million in surplus it had.
And I thought, what an excellent question.
What an excellent question. So let me, let me. This is what I would be interested to know. The Bahamas does cash accounting in its government finances, not accrual accounting.
So we do our accounting in that we only count money, money in money out money in money out, cash money.
And I'd be curious to know what was the government's overdraft facility at the end of the fiscal year 2025-2024-2025-2026. That's what I'd like to know. At the end of June 2026, I'd be curious to know what was the government's overdraft number.
I'd be curious to know whether that number reflected a net difference of 39 million as compared to what it was July 1, 2025.
Because in cash accounting, that's what should happen if you took in 39 million more dollars than you, you spent, giving you a surplus of $39 million, your balance, unless your balance should reflect a net difference of $39 million. So let me give you an example.
If the government of the Bahamas had an overdraft on June 30, 2025, and on a cash basis collected 39 more million dollars than it spent in 12 months on June 30, 2026, its overall cash position ought to be $39 million less, meaning $61 million should be the net position.
And if it did, the national debt, well, the central government debt, not the national debt, the central government debt should show no increase if you didn't borrow to finance the deficit.
Now, what we know from what the government told us is, oh yeah, we borrowed monies in that fiscal year. We borrowed in excess of $700 million in that fiscal year.
Yes, in the surplus year, we borrowed 700 plus million dollars. The minister said, I sent that money to a national investment fund.
We have come to learn that he sent it to a place that had no active Board of Governors and no account established by the Board of Governors as required by the National Investment Funds Act.
We came to find out that some this money apparently went to an account that the Ministry of Finance set up at the Central bank of the Bahamas in the name of the national investment fund, and that the government immediately, immediately began to transact on that account, to the extent that within months that account, they had no money on it other than $200,000.
And after a great deal of hoopla and hurrah and so forth, the government came and gave us a statement and said, I spent $310.9 million.
And the government didn't specify itemized what it spended on. The government says, oh, I did it on some, on some, some roads and some airports and some, I acquired some assets and I did this kind of thing, so don't worry about it, I spend the money like that.
And then you said, well, but that's okay. Even if I take your less than detailed accounting, you only accounted for $310.9 million. But that don't tell me what happened to $389.1 million that you borrowed on my behalf that I'm gonna have to spend, pay interest on.
And to this day, 100, almost 100 days or so later, you still are without an answer, okay, this in a surplus year, okay, you don't know where the money went. You haven't been told where the money went. And the government is stubbornly ignoring every question, every effort, every query to find out.
Even the Public Accounts Committee, which the government said it would be cooperating on, is finding it difficult to get an answer to that question. Because frankly, if the government was cooperative with the Public Accounts Committee on the day, on day one, when it sent, when the financial secretary appeared before the Public Accounts Committee, the chairman of the Public Accounts Committee should have been able to say, oh, by the way Bahamians, the financial Secretary of the Commonwealth of the Bahamas, the chief technical advisor to the government, the person who would know what happened to that $700 million without question gave me an itemized layout of that spending and here is where it is.
Let me say this again for your benefit.
A cooperative government would have ensured that a financial secretary of the Commonwealth of the Bahamas, a servant of the people, not a boss, not a boss, a servant of the people of the Bahamas, like the people who he works for, the political directorates would have showed up at a Public Accounts committee and said, you honorable members of the Public Accounts Committee, I understand that you have queries about what has happened to $700 million.
Please see the spreadsheet reflecting every transaction in and out of the account into which that $700 million was placed, itemizing how much to whom for what, when and where those funds have been spent.
Because this is the people's funds. And I believe that the people ought to know and as a financial secretary commissioned by my, by the government to cooperate with this Accounts Committee of the Parliament of the Bahamas of the people's Parliament, I have brought you this detail.
Is there anything else that you would require in order to understand fully what has happened to the people's funds?
That's a servant of the people, not a boss.
That's a person who understands the responsibility he has to the people of the Commonwealth of the Bahamas as required by a government that pledged full cooperation.
That is what should happen.
It should not be that today the people of the Commonwealth of the Bahamas remain blind as to what happened to hundreds of millions of its dollars. It is inappropriate. It is and it is a reason. It is a reason that a huge question mark hangs over the government's surplus.
Because the disposition of that money, the manner in which that money was disposed of has huge implications for whether or not in fact the government has a surplus. Let me tell you something that is true.
If the government spent this money, spend this money on the ordinary capital expenditure that would in any other circumstance in which a government sought to operate within the parameters of the normal functioning fiscal operations, the government of the Bahamas could today have the largest single non event deficit in the history of the Bahamas.
Largest single non event deficit in the history of the Bahamas. That's a fact. A deficit of the order of 700 to 900 million dollars today.
Yes, you heard that from me. I'm telling you that given what I know and understand what the government has done, borrowing $700 million, spending that $700 million from. There's nothing to tell me that that money ought not be captured in the spending capital spending of the Bahamas. So that's 700 to 900 million dollars. It could be even more.
Okay.
The government transferred hundreds of millions of dollars to state owned enterprises in the way of loans.
In the ordinary cost of operations in the Bahamas. I know, in the public finances. I understand.
There is no way to tell me you are lending any monies to any entity that has no revenue base.
That is not alone. That's a gift. That's a subsidy. Let me say it again.
I ask you, let me ask you a question. Let me put it this way to you.
If you lent your baby brother $2,000, he's 12, because he needed to go do something, you lent it to him expecting to get it paid back within a year because. Because that's all you could do it for.
You. Did you just lend your baby brother $2,000 or did you just give your baby brother $2,000? And I need somebody to answer me.
You, you gave him that so you could get beaches and. You get beaches and park alone for millions of dollars. Beaches and park.
You always pay for beaches and, and parks in the Bahamas. A, come on, man.
That's a subsidy. And that's what we've been doing for years. We've been giving Bahamas their subsidy.
[01:00:26] Speaker D: Huh?
[01:00:26] Speaker C: We've been given B, BPLM and bet that subsidy, Water and Sewage Corporation subsidy. But getting them no.
Right.
Then we have. The government says, well, you know, so, so to my mind, this deficit could be in the hundreds of millions of dollars.
But the government says no. We had some extraordinary payments. We had. Prime minister said he had $68 million he collected from the, the global tax, the global property tax.
He said he had $159 million in dividends paid by government entities.
[01:01:19] Speaker D: Now,
[01:01:22] Speaker C: again, again, I want you to think about this. The Prime Minister could have on that occasion said, these are the entities that paid dividends to the government, and this is the size of the dividends, right? But you didn't hear that. And I'm curious. The last I checked, the largest sum of money the government got in dividends from any entity in which it has ownership was from BTC, and that was $20 million in one year. $20 million in one year.
At its peak when BTC was fully owned by the government of the Bahamas and a monopoly, it declared a dividend requested by the Bahamas, by me, the Ministry of Finance, it declared a dividend of $50 million, which I used to pay off arrears BTC had owed to Shell Bahamas $50 million.
And, and, and so remember, the government of Bahamas doesn't own BTC in its entirety. So the government of Bahamas can't just simply go there and make BTC do nothing.
And the largest sum of money it got, it got $20 million. And I think that was because in the pandemic years, it was. It got no monies from BTC, that BTC now got no monies from BTC, but then it got $20 million at highest.
You think. And I think BTC would be the only entity capable of giving the government any substantial, substantial dividends. You think the government get $100 million from BTC, $159 million from BTC. You think it got a dividend from one source property?
You think it got a, you think it got a dividend from the BAM's electricity corporation?
Where the government get this?
[01:03:26] Speaker D: Where?
[01:03:27] Speaker C: Well, and how much money in dividends did the government get from, from these entities?
Now If I wanted to, if I wanted to do something, I could, you know what I could do? I could take some borrowed monies, I could lend it out to government entities, fix up their cash position for a bit, and then I could ask them to send me some money in dividends and then I could use that dividend as revenue to boost my end results. I could do that. I'm saying, I'm not saying the government did that, but I could do that. It'd be like, it'd be like over, over financing, but, but I could do that, right? It would be ob Financing, okay? Because it'd be, it'll be nothing, but. It'd be nothing but a magician's trick if I did that, right? Like lend you some money.
All right? So you could have a better situation. And I actually, you declare a dividend for me and then pay me my money back.
Because remember now, if you remove that dividend, $159 million from the government's accounting, that dividend, then the government's deficit would be over $100 million right away. Right away. Instantly. Instantly.
Okay. And so you could have a deficit on that side.
Right.
So there are far too many things about this, what has happened that either reflects fuzzy math or reflects all their finances or reflects uncertain understandings of what in fact happened with the fiscal operations to avoid a clear and certain belief that the Bahamas government has achieved a full surplus.
That's where I stand on the matter.
And I think that it doesn't help the government that it continues in too many instances to be non transparent and non accountable.
It doesn't help and it makes people think, okay, what is happening?
Okay, you don't enter the last year, sorry, the last month of your fiscal year. The last month of your fiscal year, not the month you received the peak fundings and revenues in your sourcing $900 million behind in revenue. And you pop off $777 million in that year, while at the same time in that month. And while at the same time you spend 500 some million dollars every single month before that.
It looks nothing like that, but you just happen to rescue your situation in the final. In it.
We have a call on the line. Go ahead, call. We're listening to you.
[01:06:59] Speaker D: Morning, Shawad, how are you doing?
[01:07:01] Speaker C: Good, man, what's up?
[01:07:03] Speaker D: Yeah, I have a couple of questions.
Whose economic model in terms of accounting does this, does the Bahamas government follow?
[01:07:17] Speaker C: We follow the IMF's Government Financial Statistics model.
[01:07:23] Speaker D: Okay, so the next question is this, Is it possible for some of the country to wind up in this fiscal situation in terms of surplus. Now that we say we have arrived at following that model,
[01:07:48] Speaker C: you could only, you can only do it if you have.
No, no, no. But it isn't even, it isn't even the government. This is not even the GFS model that, that really makes questionable the surplus. It is your constitution and your Public Financial Administration and Audit act that does so because they require, they require you to account for spending in ways that defy what we are being told about the way hundreds of millions of dollars were spent in this fiscal period.
You understand what I mean?
[01:08:38] Speaker D: So. Yeah, so. So based on what, what was, what was, what they claim has, was done.
[01:08:45] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:08:45] Speaker D: It was not, it's not appropriate.
[01:08:49] Speaker C: Well, I'm saying so. So this, your constitution says that, you know, you are to give an estimate of your, your revenue and expenses to the parliament. Right? An expenditure is supposed to reflect both the recurrent and capital expenditure. If the government of the Bahamas has an account somewhere and the government of the Bahamas is paving roads, the government of the Bahamas is building clinics or repairing clinics or airports, et cetera, that is ordinary expenditure that ought to be captured as it arises out of the consolidated fund, ought to be captured in the financial outcome of the country.
And so I just can't see how you get around that. I don't see how. You tell me you spend 700 plus million dollars on these things, but it's not captured in your financial data. I just don't see how we get away with that lawfully.
[01:09:49] Speaker D: Yeah, I follow what you're saying. And the next thing is this.
When you would have given a budget for a year, the budget that you have given for a year should have, all of your line items should have been in that budget and then all of that should be against your projected revenue.
Should your projected revenue fall short, then you end up with a deficit. Is that correct?
[01:10:21] Speaker C: Yes.
If your projected revenue falls short and your expenditure isn't contained to accommodate that shortfall. So let me tell you what can happen. You could shorten your revenue and then what the government says to ministries is listen, you all withhold spending to the order of 5, 10, 15% for the rest of the year and that helps to balance things out.
[01:10:47] Speaker D: Yeah. Okay, I follow that now. So my question is this. When it comes to the $700 million, right?
If you look at all of what was projected in the expenditure for last year and you go back and you look at all of the projects that they have had each year and you look at all of the monies that came out of every fiscal budget towards every one of those projects.
Wouldn't that tell if there's short.
If the financing of these projects over 2, 3 years hadn't come up to what they had expected and it should have been reflected every year afterwards that, okay, we projected the spend this, we had an overrun of this, and, and therefore we have these added expense and this $700 million if it's been applied to any of those projects that was going on for the last two, three years, every expenditure towards that project should be reflected every year.
And therefore, I don't see how could you take 700. Whatever the amount, whatever the amount is they say they put on roads and airports.
How do you apply that without showing all of the expense for all of these projects over the duration of the project?
And just, and just say we put it on these projects. How do you do that?
[01:12:23] Speaker C: Well, you make a good point. But firstly, we use cash accounting. And so in cash accounting, you book your expenditure in the period that you make it.
So for instance, you could have a bridge project that takes two years and it costs $100 million, but you only spend $50 million in cash in one fiscal period. But you book that $50 million in that period. You don't book $100 million. You book the $50 million you spent in that period of time.
Now, if the government wanted to be more sophisticatedly, sophisticatedly creative in the accounting, it could do what Singapore does. Singapore, as an example, runs a surplus. It did borrow money in the year that it ran a surplus. But what it did with that money is in the capital expenditures that it had it, it carried out. What it does is it doesn't book the expenditure in the budget. It books the amortization of the capital, the depreciation of the capital over time. So they might depreciate a road or a Bridge over 50 years. So they divide up the amount they spend on borrowed for that bridge by 50 years, and each year they apply that amount to the budget. But they itemize and detail what they did so that the public knows what it did in terms of that particular borrowing and amortization of the capital expense in that period. That's not what the government of the Bahamas did because we don't even know what the government did with the money in any detailed way.
And so, no, you don't have to book all the cash or the cost of a project in one year, but you book the portion you actually spent the cash on in that. Yeah, that's what we're supposed to do. Now as far as we know the government of Muhammad spent every nickel and dime of that money other than $200,000 that we saw balanced in that account. So, so 700, so 600 and $699,800,000 is spent and in that year. So all of it should have gone to the account of the government in that year.
[01:14:48] Speaker D: Yeah, okay, I got, I got that. I understand that.
[01:14:51] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:14:51] Speaker D: The last thing is this, you know, 20, 24 monies were borrowed from the Saudis. Some $50 million I think it was to do Nordic Lutra Airport.
And, and apparently it wasn't done because just recently in recent weeks they had a team went down to Nordic Ultra assess the airport because Westerner refused to go back there.
So what's the explanation for the $50 million that was borrowed?
[01:15:26] Speaker C: Well, I can't tell you but this is what I'm saying and I started the show with. And you could tell me if I'm wrong.
When you spend hundreds of million dollars.
When you tell me you had record levels of revenue in your country.
When you tell me that your unemployment rate has declined to levels that you hadn't seen in 15 years.
When you tell me you run a surplus. You shouldn't be asking that kind of question, should you?
[01:15:54] Speaker D: I agree. You shouldn't be asking the kind of question.
[01:15:57] Speaker C: Okay, there you go. That's really my point. And I, and I'm saying that any government of the Bahamas wants to create a connect between what it does and what the people see and experience in the country. Because that creates a level of pride, it creates a level of enthusiasm. It creates a level of trust and confidence that builds the spirit of this country, man, in a way that we need to see. Thank you for calling, my friend. Yeah, thanks for calling. This text says Voodoo Economics. I am where you are. Thanks for your untold sacrifices and commitment.
Appreciate it. There is a letter, there is a letter in the Guardian, I believe talking about this gfs, the government financial statistics of the IMF and how it requires that your capital expenditure in any circumstance other than outside the government's ordinary operations should be accounted for in the budget.
And I think it's a straightforward, straightforward reality.
We're going to take a break, ladies and gentlemen and we'll be back after this break. You're listening to Z Live. I'm Chicago Line, your host.
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[01:20:53] Speaker B: I'm not afraid I'm not afraid to take a stand Take a stand Everybody, everybody come take my, come take my we'll walk this road together through the storm whatever weather, cold, the warm Let me know that you're not alone I'm a if you feel.
[01:21:20] Speaker C: Welcome back. Welcome back ladies and gentlemen to Z Live. I'm Cheval, I'm your host. I'm so glad that you could join us here today on Guardian Radio 96.9 FM on this beautiful Monday afternoon. For you, 1:39 in the a.m. for me in Singapore and by the way, I have my son with me, one of my sons with me. So, so, so I'm not the only one making sacrifices because he got to listen to me in this hotel room while I do the show.
So I promise you I'm not going to do this live every, every, every day. I cannot. But I will promise you I will do for the most part, for the most part a pre recorded show where I don't do a live show. So you'll get a fresh show even if you don't get a live show from me. Okay?
This text says good afternoon or night. Mr. Lang. When you travel to these different countries, regions and environments, you see the government and citizenry working arm and in arm to better its situation. And it is clearly seen beautification of its landscape, national goals and objectives being achieved, the swift removal and replacement of appearance of corruption. The people, the nation, the nation rejoices. Well, I don't, I won't glamorize life like that. That's. I don't see that myself.
I don't. You even if you don't see the arm and arm and you don't see all the things that you say because they, they do not necessarily exist in the places that I travel to. But what you do see and can see in some places are the manifestations of good and, and sound government work.
That's what you can see. Whether it's in the public infrastructure, whether it is in the provision of services. You can see that. All right, I don't like to glamorize life like every, all of these countries, Singapore, everybody, they have issues, all right, they have issues, everybody have issues. But in some of these countries are doing a much better job than we are doing on basic things. And that is where.
And that is where we really find ourselves struggling.
Is that too many basic things?
I was at an event and someone asked me, they said, Mr. Lang, what do you think about the government's AI producing an AI policy?
And I said to them, honestly, I don't think about it.
And I said, and I don't want you to think I'm being facetious at all. I said, I don't think about it because quite frankly, I find it hard to wrap my head around an AI policy while so many basic things in the country remain undone.
I can't wrap my head around AI policy.
And too many of our public main roads look like Frankenstein's monster dirt accumulated on our main place. Places where our citizens and our tourists traverse, where our hospital finds itself in a circumstance in which it doesn't have a functional kitchen for years or even months where shortages exist in medication. I said, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, you cannot impress me with an AI policy.
If those things are undone.
I'd rather you shut down the whole AI situation and give my citizens those things. And then let's get at the AI thing. See, let me tell you all something. Yeah.
One of these days the Bahamas will realize, politicians in the Bahamas will realize that it makes no sense to promise you everything on planet Earth, that it makes no sense to go after all of these sexy sounding trendy this and do the basic things that improve the quality of life of citizens.
That's important.
You can be ambitious about the future, you can be ambitious about other things.
But we, what we, what do we tell our children? First things first, as we tell people. Man, what sense does it make? You go out there and buy yourself this nice sexy outfit and you ain't beard your skin, brush your teeth, can't beat your skin or brush your teeth. A sense I'd make.
What sense does it make to go make your outside of your home as flashy as you can make it? But the plumbing don't work.
You don't think you should fix the plumbing and then look at them aesthetic things because we too showy and performative.
We want do things to tell people we look at what I did. No, man, no, no, no, no. That's not what it is.
Shouldn't be what you did.
It should be, what are my citizens doing and what are my citizens living? Whenever the story of a nation is too much, its government, the government ain't doing its job. Because when the government is doing its job, the story of the nation are the people's experience in life.
You want me say that again?
Whenever the story of a nation is too much what its government is doing, the government isn't doing its job. Because the story of the nation should be the experience being enjoyed by the people in the nation. That should be the story.
That should be the story. And you know who's telling the story above anybody else? The people of the country.
They're telling the story because it's their lived reality, it's their pride, it's their productivity, it's their prosperity that glorifies the work that they and their government are doing.
The experience of your people are the central reality of the performance of government.
The people.
The people. You know, many, many universities build their reputations on the success of their students.
They graduate students. These students go out and change the world. They go out, then they create and innovate. They go there and they produce these massively successful outcomes. They become Nobel laureates and, and they become Pulitzer prize winners, they become Oscar winning actors and actresses, they become world class athletes. They become all kinds of things that tell people not one off and not too often, but many of them do it and it tells. People say, the people ask where you went to school, where you went to school. And people say oh you went to Pepperdine. Oh you went to the University of Bahamas. Oh you went to. And then the glory of those people shine on the places that helped develop them.
Same thing is true in the country.
Same thing. How come you are prospering? So I live in the Bahamas. How come you all are so healthy? I live in the Bahamas. Some of you all are so well housed. I live in the Bahamas. Some you are so productive. Because I have these kinds of infrastructure and these kinds of opportunities and services in the Bahamas the glory of government is the success of its people.
Not the other way around.
Not the other way around.
And so that's, that's where we have to get to listening to Z live. I'm survival, I'm your host. We could take our final break, maybe back and wrap up after this break.
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[01:33:23] Speaker B: I'm not afraid I'm not afraid to take a stand Take a stand Everybody everybody Come take my stand Come take my. We'll walk this road together through the storm Whatever weather Cover the warmth.
[01:34:10] Speaker C: Welcome back.
Welcome back. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to Z Live. I'm Cheval. I'm your host. So glad again that you could join us today on the show for these remaining moments of the show.
If you walk away from this show, I hope that you will understand that what I am expressly saying is that leadership in government and anywhere else requires prioritizing. Prioritization requires that we focus on the basic things first.
We focus on the foundation, and then we build up from those basic things, from those foundational things.
And that there are some things that ought to be clear and obvious to a government as to what should be done.
They are not the sexy things. You know, I love my children and of course I would. I may get some sense of pride if I impress my children, but I have no interest impressing my children with sexy matters if unsexy matters are undone.
It isn't. It isn't sexy to discipline your children about things that they are doing wrong. It isn't sexy to have to do the mundane things of ensuring that they bathe properly and brush their teeth and that they are dressed appropriately for the weather, that they understand that their own actions have consequences and so forth, and so forth. That's not sexiness. That's just. Those are fundamentals. Those are basic things that have to be done.
And then when you get to take them on vacation or you travel someplace with them or you give them a computer or something of that nature, that might be a more impressive sexy something, Right?
You do the fundamentals first.
Right?
It is a fundamental reality in the Bahamas that we ought to do public safety first. Fundamental.
Fundamental.
And not luxury and not even sexy. It's fundamental that you ought to keep your citizens safe. You ought to keep the environment clean and pristine for them.
It is fundamental that you are. You ought to. You ought to make sure that they have what is required for their health needs. That's fundamental. That ain't no option, ain't no luxury. You don't run around bragging about you building no this and that. The next Thing and not. That's not taken care of.
It is fundamental that you attend to the public education in the way that you ought.
Fundamental. So what if you don't? You didn't. You don't have a. This exquisite something that somebody, some other country has. You don't have this next thing that these other countries brag about. You ain't them. That's what we used to tell.
But your mommy not used to tell you stop looking at other people things because you ain't know how they get what they get.
Pay attention to your own things.
Fundamental.
If Bahamians walked about the Bahamas and saw that it was an orderly, organized country, maybe it doesn't have all the. The. All the fancy bells and whistles.
[01:38:04] Speaker E: So what?
[01:38:05] Speaker C: You go there and you get there when you get there. But the fundamental things. If they were driving on roads that didn't cause their vehicles to be broke up every single time with a windshield wiper to turn on when they drop inside some pothole or the Honda blow, they'd be happy with that. I think if they could go in the food store and have a prescription. I'm sorry, in the hospital and have a prescription written for them and actually find that the medication is in the hospital, they could go and need to see a nurse, need to get a scan, need to get on dialysis and be able to do so in a timely way. Even if there is some kind of cue. I think they'd be happy about that.
If their teachers were and the school environment was properly equipped with the things that make for a wholesome, productive school environment, I think they would be happy about that.
Because this is what leadership is.
It is putting first things first first.
Because when you do showy things, you make it about you. When you do basic, fundamental things, it's about the people you serve, okay? And I happen to believe that people do elect and do reelect people who do the things that matter in the basic and fundamental to them.
And we have to stop being a performative group.
All right?
You want people to see us? You're on Facebook.
Look at me. Look at me. Look at me.
Look at me.
How about the how? How would you exchange performance for production?
And you don't have to tell nobody. Look at you. They'll feel you, experience you, Because that, in the end, is what truly matters.
All right?
Do basic things and say it again. Do basic things.
Jesus said it this way. You ought to have done the one and not to have left the other undone.
Do basic things, man, I swear to you, if you. If You.
If you saw me functioning in, in leadership, you would think some days it's the most boring situation on planet Earth. Why?
Because basic fundamental things, just hard, unsexy work.
That's what it is.
You do the fundamental things that produce pride and promise and real meaning for people to move around and look around your country and say, my God, but look at that.
You mean they know how to keep a government building looking proper?
Oh, I walked inside the government building. You mean there is. The air conditioner is working in eno mode. Oh, hallelujah. Thank the Lord. Praise him.
Oh, you mean the, the, the, the, the. The parks continue to be functional for the children?
Oh, you mean, you mean the teachers aren't complaining that they don't have the required books and tools and utensils and stuff like that? They need to be able to cater to their children properly.
Oh, I went in the hospital the other day and Charlie lined me up for my surgery, and they told me that they'll have a bed ready for me. And then so and so and so. And that's a reasonable time because my doctor tell me that that could work.
Oh, by the way, citizen, you are in the hospital and wow, you mean you're being attended to with equipment and physicians and so forth and so forth, who have high morale because they finally find themselves in an environment where they have the tools they need to have to supply those tools personally.
And even if they don't have some things, they already see the schedule for when the things that they need will be coming in. Oh, yeah, sugar, we could deal with that.
Do the basic things.
That's what good governance is about.
That's what good leadership is about.
That's what the nation building is about.
And tomorrow I want to talk to you about how all of that isn't only on the government, but we start there. But all that isn't only on the government, but we need to do basic things.
This text says. Good afternoon, Mr. Lang. Great job. I admire your stamina. I sometimes hated working in Asia because it required that I work during their working hours. But when I returned to the hotel, it often meant dealing with work issues on the side of the world, on the other, on this side of the world. So greater admiration for your stamina and commitment. But thank you very much. Listen, man, y' all have a fantastic, fantastic afternoon. I'm gonna go try and get me some sleep. God bless you. You've been listening to See Live. I'm Chagal and your host. We'll be back to talk to you again.
[01:43:30] Speaker B: My we'll walk this road together through the storm Whatever weather call the war Let me know that you're not alone.
