Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: This is Guardian Radio, your station for up to the minute news and intelligent, interactive and engaging conversations. 96.9 FM.
The views and opinions of the hosts and guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the management and staff of Guardian Radio.
[00:00:23] Speaker B: Welcome, welcome, welcome ladies and gentlemen to Z Live. I'm Shivago and I'm your host. So glad that you could join us here today on Guardian Radio 96.9 FM on this beautiful Tuesday afternoon.
Happy you could join us.
As I indicated to you before, given where I am and the difference in time, it would be a challenge to do every show live given that by the time Mr. Show airs in the Bahamas, the time for it to air it would be 12 o' clock for you but midnight for me.
So today I am pre recording so that we can have a fresh show but not a live show.
And so this is a pre recorded show. It's not a previously recorded show but it is a pre recorded show and I'm glad and happy that you could join us. So obviously we won't have any calls today or text today live that I can read for you but of course we are live on cable.
We are on Cable Bahamas channel 969 and we are on BTC Flow channel 61 2.
Again delighted that you could join us today.
The other day in the House of Assembly there was a squabble between Prime Minister and the leader of the opposition over the issue of a.
Interim.
Well actually an update that the lead of the opposition as chairman of the Public Accounts Committee provided to the country about what was happening in the investigations by the PAC in respect to vouchers used during the election campaign.
As you will recall during the election campaign it was discovered at hundreds of thousands of dollars in vouchers were purchased and for some reason some of those vouchers ended up with the names of a candidate out of ABACO on them which is. And these vouchers were purchased by the government of the Bahamas, the Ministry of Finance. So why they should have a PLP candidate's name on it.
I really don't understand how you could even provide a rationale for that. I don't understand what's being investigated at all with respect to that. To be honest, that's very clear to me that something inappropriate was done, something woefully inappropriate was done and could have been, could have bordered on breaching the law in the country.
You couldn't maybe you investigate that as a breach of the law but, but, but it was inappropriate.
Now maybe the investigation is to Find out how come that came to be and who should be held accountable.
But the government knows all that.
And so the Public Accounts Committee is trying to find out, I guess, like what?
Did the Prime Minister know this happened?
Really?
Did the Minister of Finance know this happened?
Really did What, Were there some cabinet ministers that knew this happened? Come on, man.
So. So, I mean, I, I understand that.
I understand that, you know, there may be a need for some investigations to detail some things, but I mean, the truth is we know what happened.
During an election campaign, the government of the Bahamas bought vouchers and decided. The government of Bahamas bought vouchers and those vouchers were used for partisan political purposes. That's a fact.
No need to be cute about that. And it was inappropriate.
We could all welcome detailed disclosures about how it happened and who was involved and so forth and so forth. But the baseline of the inappropriateness, I think is clear.
And that's really ultimately. And who's ultimately responsible for that? Is the. Is the head of the government, the Prime Minister? Because he is not denying that such and such a thing happened.
He's just not saying what happened and he's not saying why it happened, and he's not holding anybody accountable for what happened. And so do we believe that at the end of the day, an investigation will cause someone to be held accountable, but the investigation will do, in its findings is tell the public what happened if. I mean, possibly, possibly. And I have something to say about that, possibly. And then the public has to make up its mind whether something or not wrong was done and discuss what should be done about it and what would be done about it. If the Prime Minister doesn't want to do it, it could only be done at election time by the people who make up their minds.
That's it.
Right.
So the Public Accounts Committee is looking at.
At that model. It's also looking at the matter of the $700 million in.
In funds transferred, according to the Minister of Finance, to the National Investment Fund, which does not now exist, as did not or did not then exist, did not have a board active to set up accounts, and so forth, and so forth, and which for which no detail accounting has been provided to this day by my account. Well, going over 100 days now, no detail accounting having been done for $700 million. Now, an investigation could ultimately find out what in detail happened to that monies, but again, how?
Only if the government decides to provide this with the information through, in this instance, the Public Accounts Committee, which it could provide just by going to Parliament. Or just by going to a press conference or just by releasing the documents. But this is where we are. So the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee, the Leader of the Opposition, Michael Pintard, provided an update on where the investigations in these matters.
The Prime Minister, in responding, as you know, Mr. Kingsley Smith, who is a member of the Public Accounts Committee, attempted to provide a communication in relation to that update to which the Opposition objected.
And you know, there was a back and forth in the House assembly that resulted eventually in a suspension, a brief suspension of the House.
And then the Prime Minister, in addressing the matter, said to the Leader of the Opposition, you don't, in the middle of an investigation, provide details of the investigation.
You, you, you, you do your investigation, you wait for your findings and so forth.
To which the Leader of the Opposition responded by noting, in many countries, matters like this, public hearings held.
And so the public gets to see in real time the deliberations of the investigation.
So they had a little bit back and forth about that.
The thing about it is, for me is.
Rationality.
Is important in public life. Things ought to be rational.
What we do ought to be rational.
Laws ought to be rational.
Policies ought to be rational.
Projects have to be, should be rational. Procedures should be rational.
Right?
And because it means then that sufficient thought has gone into something to bring us to a conclusion that makes sense.
So things ought to be rational.
Think about this for a moment, please.
The Public Accounts Committee is investigating matters.
Why?
Because in the most ideal sense, an investigation is getting about, getting at the truth.
Think about that now.
In an investigation, your hope is to find out the truth.
What is the truth?
The truth is what happened, when it happened, how it happened, who did it and why it happened. Those are basic things you want to find out to get at the truth.
Why do, why do we want to get at the truth?
Because the truth matters, especially in respect of these, in every respect. In public and private matters, we want to get at the truth because the truth helps us to navigate the world properly, to see the world properly, to discern the world properly, to understand the world properly, and to behave in the world properly. Properly. Because when we have the truth, we know whether we can and should continue along a path or we should discontinue along that path. We know whether we should modify some things in respect of what is happening or whether we should not modify things.
It's, it's important to moving through the world properly.
Okay, the truth matters.
In the time of Dr. Minnis as Prime Minister, during the pandemic, the then lead of the opposition, Philip Brave Davis, called for a commission of inquiry in relation to some conduct created, conduct carried out by the government.
A commission of inquiry.
Why?
Because in the matter, he felt that there was insufficient transparency, disclosure and what have you, and they needed to get at the truth and did. And on one occasion he uttered these words, are we not about the truth? That was when he put up those murder signs during an election campaign.
Are we not about the truth? Of course we are. Truth matters.
So you want to get at the truth. Now, what is truth?
Right. You know what happened. Why? Because you bring light on it. You bring light on things. You bring light on what happened, when it happened, why it happened, who did it and how it happened. You bring light on it.
Okay, so. And how do you do that? You, in the instance of a public accounts committee, you have people come in and testify and provide evidence and so forth. Who are these people who come in to testify and provide evidence? They're the people who have been involved. They are government people and private people who have been involved in a matter who presumably know the truth.
Now, I want you to imagine that you are trying to get the truth and you're bringing in these people to have these discussions. That's all that's going to happen. You know, people are going to ask questions, people are going to answer questions. And then you ask a question and you answer a question. Only one or two things going to happen. You can either tell a lie, or you're going to tell the truth, or you're not going to remember, or you can say it, you're going to not remember. Well, but the fact of the matter is, you're going to just give an answer that people get to, to assess as to the veracity, as to the curacy, as to the truthfulness of it.
That's what's going to happen.
It happens in our courts every day.
It happens on our parliamentary channel as the House of Assembly meets. Every single time it does, you're gonna get at the truth because you're going to be shedding light on things, because public officials and private people are going to come before the Public Accounts Committee. They're going to. They're going to pledge an oath to tell the truth and they're going to be asked questions and they're going to answer questions. So I want to ask you this question.
What could be wrong with televising that live?
What could be wrong with doing that? We had a whole commission of inquiry about the hotel, incorporated, government, corporations, et cetera. I remember those.
We had our Commission of Inquiry about, about, about drug trafficking in the bahamas in the 80s and so forth. So for all, all were investigations.
And so contrary to what the Prime Minister said, they were investigations and they were televised and there was still a report produced.
Why were they televised?
Because the Prime Minister says investigations. You, you don't, you don't do that. You, you let the thing play out and then you, you produce a report. But that's not what happens in far many instances, not just in the world but in the Commonwealth of the Bahamas.
It happens all the time.
Right? What's the problem with that? What's wrong with that? There are the O.J. chim Simpson trial was televised. Gavel. The gavel in the United States of America everybody's able and the jury still was able to produce their verdict.
And not just that trial or many other trials, you have trials in Nuremberg trial, the historic trial of the International Court of Justice. In them they hop all the time.
What's the problem?
You're trying to get at the truth. What could the public interest be not served by public hearings of a matter like this?
I want somebody to give me a case for that. A case for what?
Why the public interest would not be served if that happened. You're listening to Z Live. I'm Shabad Relang, your host. We'll be back after this break.
[00:17:09] Speaker C: I'm not afraid I'm not afraid to take a stand Take a stand everybody everybody take my, come take my we'll walk this road together through the storm whatever Weather, cold, the warm Let me know that you're not alone.
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[00:20:47] Speaker C: Come take my head.
[00:20:48] Speaker B: Come take my welcome back welcome back ladies and gentlemen to Z Live. I'm Shavar Rolling your host. So glad that you could join us here today on Guardian Radio 96.9 FM on this beautiful Tuesday afternoon. This is, I want to remind you, a pre recorded show. This is not a previously recorded show, right? Hopefully if all goes well I'm resting at 12 plus midnight where I am so with so so I'm I'm talking about the dispute that arose about the update that the leader the opposition gave in relation to the work of the Public Accounts Committee now under and the Prime Minister's objection to that update given that he says that you know you ought to conduct investigation and then you ought to produce your findings but to do what the Leader of the Opposition did in providing updates, which the Leader of the Opposition said that the public has a right to know how things are proceeding and what have you. And in fact, this was consistent with his call for live coverage of the Parliamentary Accounts Committee investigations, which were denied by the Speaker.
And so the government is consistent with what the speaker is saying, is saying, no, no, we're not going to do that.
My point is an investigation is about getting at the truth.
Prime Minister once asked, are we not about the truth? And the answer is obvious, yes, we are. We are about the truth.
And the truth is about casting light on.
If you have live coverage of a matter like this, there are many advantages to doing that.
Right.
Because in the way it is happening now, what's going to happen is people are going to present before the Public Accounts Committee, they're going to say lots of things and then someone is going to be left to distill what was said and then to assess what was said and then make some findings.
Fine, you know, that's, that's a thing.
And then you can have the government come out and say, well, you know, it wasn't quite like that.
Or you could have the opposition say, ah, well, it wasn't quite like that.
What you don't get to have in a live coverage is anybody telling you or me what we did or did not see in a live coverage.
So, yes, I could deter. I can say, you know, based on what I saw.
I do not agree with that conclusion or I agree with that conclusion because this was said and that was said by so and so and so and so.
Live coverage provides the public with the ultimate, ultimate level of transparency and accountability. And who could argue with them? Oh, my God. You mean we had the ultimate, ultimate level of transparency and accountability in government, in governance?
Oh, no, no, no. God forbid that that should happen.
That we have the ultimate.
What is the ultimate level of transparency and accountability that we, the public, can see and hear and assess for ourselves.
You mean I don't need a third party to tell me that what happened? What once someone said, no, you do not. You actually get to see and hear what the Financial Secretary said, what the Governor of the Central bank said, what the Director of Legal affairs or Deputy Director of Legal affairs or whoever else says it, what the treasurer says, you mean I get to hear their answers for myself. And I don't need some wonderful soul who may be too partisan to the core to help me appreciate. Booba said. I get to hear it for myself. What could be the Objection to that.
Oh, because I'm a child and children need to be guarded against the truth.
Children need to be guarded against the naked truth.
Because this is R rated.
This is max rated.
No, it's not.
It's an attempt to get at the truth.
And people either answer the question accurately, as accurately as they can. Truthfully. As truthfully as they can.
Or they don't.
Or they say, I can't answer that question at all.
See, Rationality, man. Rationality. I'm sorry.
What would be wrong with that? We had about drug trafficking and the possible involvement of government officials in drug trafficking. Live televised proceedings.
We had Commission of Inquiries, Farmers BEC Hotel Corporation.
We, we remember, y' all remember what's his name, the lawyer who became very famous. You remember Bishop Gomez, the late and all of those. We saw this stuff and it was an investigation. It was an investigation.
Prime minister says you don't do this. You don't hold investigations and live coverage in front of television and all that kind of stuff. But those things were held live.
What's the problem?
The press were able to. The press is coincide the court right now when they have in murder cases and them kind of things and they are able to see what is happening in the. In the cases. They can report on those cases as they observe what is happening.
It's a problem. They might not be covered live on television and that kind of stuff. But. But the press is there seeing what is happening with a sad.
So I don't understand it. But that's the argument.
This is public. This is public.
Please forgive me. Right.
But I, I am, I still. I'm just so baffled. Still I'm baffled.
Why am I baffled?
Because you know what we're having an argument about?
We are having an argument about what?
We are having an argument about an investigation into what the government did with $700 million. Pl.
[00:28:25] Speaker C: Why?
[00:28:26] Speaker B: Because the government will not tell us what it did with $700 million plus because government officials have made public statements contradicting themselves about what was done about $700 million plus.
We don't need a Public Accounts Committee investigation.
We don't.
The government of the Bahamas can today, tomorrow simply produce a detailed accounting as called for by Bowen, BO and others and myself, the opposition, the press, the newspaper editorials and produce a detailed accounting of what it did with $700 million plus until all of this, tell the Public Accounts Committee. Sit down and find something better to do. Here is the information you require.
What do you do with $700 million? If you're the Government of the Bahamas that makes you unwilling, reluctant to disclose details of it.
What could you do?
What could make a group of political people decide, I am not going to tell the public what I did, what we did with their money.
That is, that is, that is so, that is so mind boggling to me that such a reluctance exists, Cannot understand it.
I mean, first of all, the government of the Bahamas has a fiduciary responsibility to spend public funds entirely for the good of the public.
Okay? That's a lawful responsibility
[00:31:05] Speaker D: and not a
[00:31:06] Speaker B: luxury that a government has. That is a absolutely fundamental responsibility that it has.
So what you do with the money, you spend the money on public good.
And so you.
Why would anyone have a reluctance to detail the spending of monies on public good?
Now, if you spend it on public bad, if you spend it not on public interest, but on private interest, if you spend it in pursuit of partisan political advantage, you know, if you spent it in ways that could be traced back to private gain, then I could see some reluctance in that regard.
But to spend that money.
This isn't, this isn't $100,000. This isn't $700,000. This isn't $7 million. This is 700 plus million dollars. Think about this for a moment.
The government is heralding that it has a $39 million surplus.
Surplus $39 million heralding that, but will not herald what was done with $700 million in detail.
Let me say it again.
The government of the Bahamas proudly says to the country, for the first time in the history of the Bahamas, an independent Bahamas, we have a surplus of $39 million.
And that is a proud achievement.
But the government of the Bahamas has spent over $700 million, okay, over $700 million, which is 18 times 180% more than $39 million.
And the government will not forcefully come to you and detail how it spent. That is that not.
That would seem strange that such a thing would exist right now. I don't know what happened to the money, and I'm not speculating what happened to the money, but I do know this much.
I find it challenging that politicians who are always pleased to say to the public, here's what I did, here's what we did, etc. Please to do so.
You know, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we fed a million meals to school children. We have, we've donated this amount to the Junkanoo groups. We have purchased this and that and proud to say so, I just find it difficult that there's not a serious eagerness to say what happened in detail to the $700 million, causing us to have a public accounts committee going through an interview process that now is a free feature of arguments. You know why? Because now we're going to have to wait for somebody to conclude for us what anybody said and what what anybody said meant. Why? Because we don't believe in televisor providing live coverage to our efforts to get at what happened.
We are going to keep in the dark the efforts being carried out to get at the light of what in fact happened.
And that seems to me irrational. You're listening to Z Live and Shabbat Lang, your host. We'll be back after this.
Welcome back. Welcome back.
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[00:38:38] Speaker C: We're good for you.
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[00:39:19] Speaker C: I'm not afraid I'm not afraid to take a stand Take a stand Everybody everybody come take my, come take my we'll walk this road together through the storm Whatever weather, cold the warm Let me know that you're not alone I love if you feel like you make they claim they move you should.
[00:39:48] Speaker B: Radio 96.9 FM on this beautiful Tuesday afternoon. Remember this is a pre recorded show, not a previously recorded show.
Again, so glad that you could join us.
So I really believe you know that when you are, when you are in, when you are governing, you have power and no one can make you do anything with the power.
Yes, of course you could be taken to court and the court could rule and you could then on the basis of the court ruling you may be required to do something. But even then you can as a government take legislative and other measures to avoid even doing sometimes what the court says. Right.
So, so, so you have real power when you are in government and that, and the exercise of that power is as much a reflection on you as, as anything else you do.
Right. How you exercise that power says a lot.
And I think that we are yearning in the country, in many circles, not every circle, many circles, we are yearning for the ability to simply just outright trust our government.
And I don't mean the Davis administration alone, I mean government, I mean government. I'm talking about the institutions of the state that have to do with the exercise of power and authority over the public affairs of the state. There is a yearning for that.
I am absolutely encouraged about the fact that according to the leader of the opposition and from what we are been able to observe from responses from the governor of the Central bank, the legal affairs Department I'm encouraged that there are some people who understand the importance of that trust and therefore are cooperating in a manner that is aiding in the inquiry of the country in these matters of public affairs. So I'm encouraged by that because it means that we are not in a state in which every entity is following the lead of the government and saying, no, no, no, no, no. But there are others who believe, no, we have a responsibility and obligation to be responsive in these matters to the inquiries being made by the people's representatives. So I'm encouraged about that.
And, and, but, but there is a yearning, a yearning to have confidence. See, let me, let me tell you what I find problematic.
If somebody says, I don't have confidence in the government, what can, what too often hard times happens is some politician, prime minister or cabinet ministers or members of parliament or senators or somebody, they take that personality and say, oh, you don't have confidence in me, you believe I'm a liar, you believe I'm not telling the truth, etc. But it's in about you, bro.
Mom. Sir, it's not about you.
When you leave, that office will still be there.
That office is what serves.
You could have a lie in an office, but the office don't have to lie, though.
You could have somebody in the office who has no character. But the character of the office can be demonstrated because some people might realize, you know what? I have an office that's bigger than my character. Let me act within that. And we've seen that happen. We know that that happens. This is one of the reasons why you could have people do all kinds of things in their private life.
And then when they come and deal with their business affairs, they come and they deal with their public affairs, their government affairs, and so forth. So for they act differently, we all do that.
People you can have, you will have people. Even, even if they, even, even if it's just, even if it's just adjusting like, you know, it's not. You're not being vulgar. But you, at home, you say things and do things that you won't say in church and you won't say in your school, you won't say in polite company.
Why? Because you recognize the context of the moment and the situation in which you find yourself. And that is true for people in public life too.
All right? So don't let's fool ourselves. This above the office.
We expect the office to act away. We expect the office to act in accordance with the responsibility of the our office. And since you're in it, you act to the office, not down to it.
That's what happens.
Go home and be what you want to be in the office.
You, you act accordingly. You're a lawyer, right? You have a client.
You don't tell your client what to do. You, you advise your client.
But when your client gives you an instruction, you follow the instruction of your client. When your client asks you a question, you don't tell the client. You don't need to know that.
I don't need to tell you that. You don't need to see that.
Nonsense, absolute nonsense.
They say you work for somebody.
You telling them what to do. You telling them what you want them to know.
That's nonsense.
No good lawyer would do that.
No good accountant would do that.
No good consultant or advisor would do that.
You are my client, I mean, or I am your.
I am your client who work for me. I don't wait for you, Right?
So don't take it personally about you. It's about the office you hold. This is about the functions you carry out. This is about the role you play, not about you.
That's why I keep telling you, you know, don't, don't, don't, don't get in, don't.
It may be a lucky day if you find somebody in office who truly loves you.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but it would be a lucky day when you find somebody who truly loves you and doing what they do just because they love you.
No, man, they have a job to do. They have a role to play.
Whether they love you or not is irrelevant. What is more relevant is whether they understand the role of that job and will do it to the best of their ability and will do it rising to the standard of the job.
You're listening to Z Live. I'm Survival. I'm your host. We're going to take a break for news. We'll be back after the news break.
[00:47:31] Speaker C: I'm not afraid I'm not afraid to take a stand Take a stand everybody, everybody come take my Come take my we'll walk this road together through the storm whatever Weather, cold, the war Letting you know that you're not alone.
[00:47:57] Speaker A: This is Guardian Radio 96.9 FM streaming on guardiantalkradio.com and the Guardian Radio app. Nassau, Bahamas.
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[00:51:35] Speaker B: Welcome back. Welcome back ladies and gentlemen to Z Live. I'm Chicago Line, your host. So glad that you could join us here today on Guardian Radio 96.9 FM on this beautiful, beautiful Tuesday afternoon.
Again this is a pre recorded show. So no live texts or calls today because I am still in Singapore and by the time as you hear this show I hope I am soundly asleep because it would be now, it would be now after one o' clock in the morning.
All right.
Yesterday I was talking about we have to, we have to. In government, in public life and national development, we have to put first things first.
It doesn't make any sense to be about the grandest this and the mega that and cutting edge this and that. And we have fundamental things we just are not paying attention to. Just basic things like the needs of people on an island having access to an ambulance. Especially the island is huge. Andrus as an example, the largest island of the balance. My God, something happens. Somebody need to get to them people so they could be transported where they could get assistance. Maybe basic things in education and the like and, and that just not being covered, not being taken care of because we, but we are spending in the tens and hundreds of millions of dollars on grand things we say we're not taking care of these basic fundamental things.
I spoke about that in respect of government but I also indicated that reality is also true for us personally, personal, individually in the country.
Yesterday somebody had sent in a text that I, I didn't get a chance to read and I wanted to read it. It said exactly. Too much superficiality and flash in the pan. Gimmicks everywhere about grand pronouncements and breaking ground. Even the completed projects are very soon being neglected. The arrival of the royal family is a prime example. We should have ongoing maintenance instead of knee jerk reactions. Said that texter yesterday.
Right.
So similarly to the government in terms of being able to put first things first, we have to be able to put first things first too.
Right? Not in our, in the way we approach our responsibility as citizens in the country.
Right. We have to put first things first.
And because.
So. So this is how I understand from my own experience, knowledge, political leadership to be operating right.
Either a political leader or lead or the political leaders believe earnestly, I mean sincerely, they sincerely believe that what they are doing is what you want them to do or they believe that even if you don't want them to do it. They earnestly believe that it is what they should do or they don't care what you want done.
They only care about what they want done because what they want done advances some personal gain for them, their group, or some interest that they have outside of any interest you have.
Or they believe that what they do can advance their interest, their group's interests and your interest at the same time. But if there is a call to be made about whether your interest gets to survive their interest, they will decide to survive their interest first.
Or they could decide that even if their interest conflicts with your interests, they will put your interest above their interest and they will do what is better for you.
Any number of those, any one of those scenarios has to be at play.
What you as a citizen have to ask yourself is what does it take?
What does it take for me to increase the probability that what a politician or group of politicians do
[00:57:25] Speaker C: will
[00:57:27] Speaker B: largely or completely serve our interest? My interest as a citizen now, not as a personal person person, but as a citizen.
What, what could I do to improve the chances? I can't guarantee the chances because I can't make a person act.
But I can do some things that can make it more likely that the way they act, they will act in my interest.
What can I do? So let me ask you something.
Let's say you hire somebody to clean your yard, right?
To landscape your yard.
Now that could be an individual or that could be a company.
Would, would they do a better job for you if you knew how you wanted your land yard clean or landscaped, or would they do a worse job for you?
I ask again, if you knew what you wanted about your yards cleaning and landscaping, would a person likely do a better job for you or worse job than if you didn't know?
Than if you didn't know?
Oh yeah, the chances of them doing a terrible job for you are not as good a job for you, increases immensely if you don't know what job you want done. Is that's a fact.
That's a fact.
But if you know that you want I don't just want you to cut my grass. I want you to trim around the edges. I want you to trim my trees. I want you to lay this out this way. I want you to put that in place. I want you to move that stuff there. If you know that you'll be in a much better situation to guide them about what they do for you than not and to be able to judge whether they did a good job for you or not.
And so put the first things first. If you're an office holder of citizen. If you're a citizen, the first thing you want to do is you want to do your own due diligence to know what's a good job by these people, what's the job they should be doing.
That's what you want to do. You want to make sure you arm yourself with knowledge and information as much as possible.
Of course you don't, you got your own life to live. But you could, you have time to be able to pay attention to some things.
You know, you, you know what a proper, a properly paved road looks like. You travel, you know, you know what it looks like, you know the properly maintained building looks like, feels like, you know that. You know what a properly run and managed school looks like. Equipped school. You know what that like, man, you know that, you know that.
Or if you don't, go find out. And in this day and age with all the avenues we have for information and so forth and so forth. Oh, sugar, you can find that out for sure.
Many ways to do that, right?
So that's the first thing we have to arm ourselves with information, man. You have to get the information. We have to find what is our government. First of all, what is it I want from my government? What is it I want from the leadership of my country?
What should I want? Maybe, I don't know, go find out.
Go find out what should a citizen expect from their government, you know, these days?
AI so. AI so good. Yeah, we'll ask, will ask you, do you want to know what a government should do in any specific country and on any specific issue? And you could ask, you could find out. They're not going to think for you.
So you, you're just taking the information and you're using it to build your own knowledge of things.
But that's the first thing. You got to know what you know, what you want from people, okay? Know what you expect, right?
That's how you get to judge whether people are doing what you require them to do. On the other hand, in politics, a lot of people come and they promise you things.
They promise you that we have manifestos, we got our plans, and they tell you you could at least, if you don't, if you don't know overall what it is what people should be about, go look at their plants, go look at the manifestos, bro. You said to me, sister, you gonna do X, Y and Z. And you even gave me timelines for some of them.
You haven't done X, Y and Z. What's the problem, Right? So that's a part of Getting to know, informing yourself.
Very important citizens who are enlightened, citizens who are in the know are very, very capable of helping to ensure that people are not going to give them mediocre service or hoodwink them or something of that nature.
An educated people is hard to rule and easy to govern.
And so you being more informed can improve the prospect.
Prospect that, that your government will actually serve you better.
I didn't say guarantee.
I said improve.
You guys may not realize this, right? But I can tell you, you think, you think it's only us as host, maybe talking, but you have no idea how, when you call into these shows, when you text into these shows, how many times that is causing people to realize, listen, man, this issue blowing up, we have to do something about it. Mind you, they still may be stubborn because sometimes, you know, sometimes telling you what you want to know, they just realized that can blow up even more. So they can tell you, but, but nonetheless, I can tell you how many occasions, on how many occasions the government has responded, be it F and M or plp because of what they have been hearing on these talk shows, what they've been reading in newspapers and these letters to the editors, that is part of your thing. And you can only be good at that, better at that, the more you know and the more informed you are. And sometimes being informed means you, you, you have assessed the situation and said, you know what? I don't know enough. And so it's just asking the question, why, you know, doing this? Why can't we know this? Why? That too creates genuine higher probability that you will get out of your leadership.
What do you require? So you got to put yourself in the know.
That's a priority we shall have to have.
And another priority you have to have is you have to be active. You have to be active in the process. You have to be, man, you, you get, listen. And that active act, that activeness. What, what I mean, I don't mean that you have to go there marching unless that's required.
I don't mean that you have to go out there every day and be beaten the pavement about political things. Oh man, you have to be active. Active means listen.
It's as simple as this. And not, it's, it's not even going out your way.
You are your friends, your family.
Active could mean did you guys observe X, Y and Z? Now I'm not talking about being defensive and going partisanly politicizing with your people. That's not what I'm talking about. That's not where you Go yet.
I'm talking about being able to ask and discuss with family and friends issues that are happening in the country. What are your thoughts?
Did you see this?
What do you feel about that, what do you know about that, etc. I didn't, I didn't quite understand when they said this or that anybody in here understands it.
That's part of being active, right? You might have a break at work. I didn't say while you're working you may have a break at work. You could ask also, what did you think about this? Why do you know about. Because now you're still gathering information, you're even sharing information. That's part of activeness, right? Is being able to discuss and try to get to understand better, get to know what you know and get to know what you don't know. And then to be able to, you know, build an information based on something.
Active could also mean, you know, you decide, you know, I don't like this issue.
I don't like what is happening. I have a member parliament, I know a senator, I know a cabinet minister.
I may discuss it with them. I might send them a letter, I might give them a call, I might attend a meeting.
Active could be that, right? It could mean, you know what, I'm going to go and find out more because this is happening at the school and I'm going to find out from the principal, I'm going to find out from the teachers, I'm going to find out for the guided kinds counselor, what they understand, what they know, what they believe, and so forth and so forth and so forth, what could be done and you could escalate that level of activity up to the point where you decide, you know what, maybe we do need a demonstration, maybe we didn't do need a protest. Or you could decide, you know what?
I have decided that based on what is happening, when election comes, I'm going to do this and I'm going to participate. There's not a chance in hell I'm going to sit down or stay at home. Not a chance in hell. I'm going out there and I'm going to vote for my party because I or this party or this person or that person because I believe this is necessary to produce an outcome that I am striving for.
That's a part of putting first things first.
See, you can be you being, being about the grand, just like the government being about the grand, oh, I want my country to look like Singapore, I want my country to be like this in the United States, etcetera That's about the grand. But you don't get the ground until you put first things first. And sometimes just as the politician has to do that in governing the country, so does the citizen holds the office of citizen have to do that in order to push the country forward.
You're listening to Z Live. I'm Chef Agalang, your host.
We'll be back after this.
[01:08:42] Speaker C: I'm not afraid I'm not afraid to take a stage stand, take a stand Everybody, everybody come take my, come take my we'll walk this road together through the storm Whatever weather call the war Let me know that you're not alone.
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[01:14:32] Speaker A: Hey, this is John Finland and on Monday evenings you will be hearing my
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[01:17:24] Speaker B: And remember the place in which I fit did not exist until I make
[01:17:28] Speaker C: it I'm not afraid I'm not afraid to take a stand Take a stand Everybody, everybody come take my hand Come take a walk this road together through the storm, whatever weather, cold, the war Let me know that you're not alone.
[01:18:01] Speaker B: Welcome back. Welcome back ladies and gentlemen to Z Live. I'm Chivago Lang, your host. I'm so glad you could join us for these remaining moments of the show.
So as I indicated to you before, this is a pre recorded show and not a previously recorded show.
And so we, we, we. The point that I was making in the last moments is that we as citizens have to make sure we have our own priorities in place in terms of our own active participation in the civic life of the country.
We want to push for better, for the government to have to put first things first and to be rational about the business of governance. Then we have to put things first things first in our own civic responsibilities and push ourselves to be rational about our approach to governing the country. Now to be honest with you, this is a call that you could make and large numbers of people are not going to be about that business. But that doesn't really, that doesn't really stop us from making, making, making the progress we need to make because we can always, once you have a core group of citizens, sufficient number of citizens actively involved, it makes a difference. And we've seen that. We've seen that in the country. We've seen that when we were able to move forward from what we had prior to majority rule, what we had prior to independence would be hard, say in 1992 and so forth and so forth. We've seen that you can make changes, you can, you can encourage difference. And it's not just changes in the political realm. You can make changes in the economic space, you can make changes in the education space and so forth.
We just, we just need enough people, and more often than not people who have leadership ability, who have influence to be about the business of putting first things first, prioritizing things and doing the necessary work to encourage the outcomes that we are seeking to encourage.
Before I leave you, let me, let me say something.
People who operate in the realm of money can sometimes believe that everything is about money and everything is not about money.
You, you, your country could be falling apart.
The moneyed will still proceed as if life is taking place as usual. You go and check it out, you go and look in countries where you can essentially Say they are failed state and you still have people making money.
They're making money off of lending government money.
They're making money off of giving services to the government. They're making money off doing business with each other in the private sector.
So, so, so in, even in, even in economic depressions, some people have made the most money that they've ever made.
So looking at moneyed people's continuing borrowing from the government as an example or I mean, sorry, lending to the government as an example or doing business with the government, that is not an indication of the fact that everything is good or many things are good. That's not an indication. I'm sorry, not, not in the least.
Because in, in many countries, I don't want to call any names right now, whether these countries are dictatorships or democracies, many of these countries where things are erupt where things are, I mean really backward people are making money, lending money.
Just so you know, as an example, Japan's debt to GDP ratio is almost 200%.
Jamaica's is like 160%.
The United States almost 100% if not higher debt to GDP ratio now.
And people are still lending money to those countries.
Greece which was almost bankrupt, many of the Latin American countries almost bankrupt. People still lending money to us to gauge money.
And what the market might be saying as an example of what is going right.
I don't know that that is altogether the best parameter because you know, in the Great Recession, the Great recession, that was 2000, 2007, 2008, I went to Boston, New York, Los angeles to race $300 million for the Bahamas in the Great Recession.
And this is an economy based on tourism. And do you know that in that Great Recession I got an oversubscription of offers to the tune of $380 million for that $300 million we were trying to raise.
Because the market, the markets know if a country is on the brink of not being able to pay, Honda Bahamas isn't even close to that. No, no, no, no, don't let nobody fool you. Bams isn't even close to that. Right.
But the market will could also know that. Yeah, you know, maybe they doing a little bit of.
A little bit of creative financing in their stuff, but that's their domestic business that I'm not the do I know. I believe I can get my pay because I've been getting my pay all along from these people. So you know, but I might give you some money. Not a worries.
Do not allow, do not allow money to be the barometer for how you assess how your country is doing.
A country's government ought to be transparent and accountable.
A country's government ought to be efficient and productive. It ought to have the ability to put first things first and ensure that basic essentials of a country are met.
And I respect people who are able to make money. I respect people who are able to do well in this world and thrive.
But the truth of the matter is they don't get to feel in the same way as ordinary citizens feel when governments mess up.
They don't.
Their children don't go hungry, their bills don't go unmet.
They have a cushion. And that's not. And that's not. They shouldn't be blamed for that. They shouldn't be cursed for that. That's a wonderful thing that they are in that position.
But the truth of the matter is the negative consequences of bad government behavior do not fall as hard upon them. And in so many instances, in so many instances in the business environment, they are integrated with the government right there.
They have a service that they offer, they have products they offer. And the government is one of their clients and a significant client.
And so they aren't in the same relationship as the average citizen with the government.
When you are in Andros and you come into an emergency and there is not an ambulance equipped to take you, insufficient proper time and means to where you get, have to get help, it doesn't matter whether or not financial people are seeing you as being okay. That doesn't matter if you are laying down in a hospital and there are rodents running up underneath your bed.
The market isn't paying attention to whether that is the case or not.
But, but, but does that not suggest that there are things that need to be done?
It does.
And because you speak up, if you are the host of a show, if you are a caller to a show, if you are a person in opposition to the government, if you are a person in government in opposition to something your government is doing, that has nothing to do with whether or not somebody who is in a financial situation is listening to you or not.
It doesn't make un irrelevant, it doesn't make it relevant what you are saying.
So it's important for us to be able to separate out what we are talking about in the, in the, in the aspirations we have for our country on micro levels and what may be happening for our country on macro levels.
Right.
You know, when, when Shirley street was bus up, bus right up looking like a Frankenstein monster, the government of the Bahamas was borrowing money and borrowing money and no problem while the citizens are suffering, riding up on that terrible road. Now that the King is coming, the road is being paved and there's, there's, there's, there's going to be great of benefit to the citizens who have to use the road in that regard. But while the road was bus up, the government was able to still borrow in hundreds of millions of dollars. We understand excess about $700 million.
So, so what we are, what we are looking for in the management of our country and the leadership of our country isn't altogether a money issue.
It matters if our government is being straight with us.
Maybe some of you all heard the Singapore Foreign Minister's clip where he was talking about exactly that. He says one of the things that they try to do in Singapore is they try to be straight up with people whether it's good, bad or ugly.
And that's a fact. It matters.
It matters whether your government getting monies or borrowing monies or not. It matters whether you have historic revenue or not. It matters whether your government is being straight up with you. It matters whether you understand whether your government's financial results actually and accurately reflect what it should reflect. Even if the market, even if the market is seeing and saying something different. Doesn't matter.
Doesn't matter. I have a right, you have a right as citizens to ask, are you being straight with me?
And if I question you whether you've been straight with me, you can give me an answer that helps me be at ease about.
We have to, we have. It's important to understand these, these differences, right? Not to be lulled to sleep because you know what, you know what happens a lot. What can happen.
It's like, it's like being in an abusive relationship, right? You could be in an abusive relationship and people think, oh, but, but I'm doing this for you and I'm doing that for you. And if, now mind you, when you're doing this and doing that materially, but then on the other hand, these things are being done that causes you to feel a certain kind of way, right?
Being having money in your pocket and feeding the child, providing housing for the child, but beating the hell out of the child and telling the child, the child ain't no good.
Those two things, those two things are incongruent with each other.
And the one doesn't make it okay for the other to happen. It's absolute nonsense.
And so we have to keep our own heads straight. We have to keep our own heads clear about what we require, what we desire in terms of governance of the country and, and keep pushing for that, no matter what people tell you or try to convince you otherwise.
Because good governance in the end matters for all of us.
Responsible citizenship matters in the end for all of us.
And we should all be participants in trying to push ourselves to that level of excellence.
And if people get offended because you challenge them, if they get offended because they think maybe their private interest or particular interest or their partisan interest might be troubled by it, what you could do about that, you know, they have a right to respond and react to things as they wish.
But in the end, what we need to be is clear eyed, clear headed, objective as much as possible, focused, dedicated and committed to working with and pushing forward our country.
And every day we have an opportunity, we have a chance to work on that. That's what we do.
Responsible government, responsible citizens, better nation, huh? Responsible government, responsible citizens, better nation.
And that's what we're striving for, Better nation.
That's what we strive for, a better nation than the one we have. And even if the nation was good, we ought to strive for it to be better. And even if it were better, you strive for to even be even better.
Because that's what you do when you love your country live. I'm Chicago, like your host. So glad that you could join us here today on Guardian Radio, 96.9 FM on this beautiful Tuesday afternoon, God's best life. We'll be back with you again tomorrow. Have a fantastic afternoon.
[01:33:27] Speaker C: Stay everybody. Everybody come take my Come take my Walk this road together through the storm Whatever weather Cover the war Let me know that you're not alone I love if you feel like you.
